Zelda: Yes, Andrew. MTHFR has been downplayed quite a lot, but in recent years a lot more research has been done on the importance of it for the body. So, methylation does everything from repairs our cells, our cell membranes, our DNA. It helps metabolize our energy. It helps us give the ability to absorb the vital nutrients from food. It can turn genes off or on. So, that was one of the most important recent discoveries where other genes at play can be switched on because the MTHFR gene has been activated and is not behaving. And it can be a little bit tricky. It also can control our homocysteine levels. It can control anxiety. It can turn stress off or on. It is a big link to depression and insomnia. It’s got an actual multitude of effects on the body when we’re not methylating correctly.

Andrew: So, when we’re talking about methylation, the sort of assumption is that we think about something being activated, but in a lot of cases it’s actually to turn genes off and to keep them somnolent, keep them quiet. And it’s the lack of methylation, the poor methylation that enables the gene to be switched on ostensibly by other factors. So, what do we have to be considerate of when we’re talking about methylation polymorphisms, and for instance, bystander reactions? I guess, you know, I mean this is like a ball of wool teasing it apart. Where do you start?

Zelda: Yeah, well, I mean, if we are methylating correctly, 80% of our other genes should be silent. Therefore, they should be not activated, we shouldn’t have any chronic illness. But when we’re not methylating correctly, then the other genes can get turned on. And when we’re not methylating correctly, we get autoimmune disorders, lack of energy, chronic fatigue, for women, a lot of menstrual problems, depression and anxiety. All of these things are all linked. Methylation has the ability to control our cardiovascular system. It can control our immune response, it can control our reproductive system, our mood. That’s why if it’s working and functioning, the 80% of the genes are not active, therefore, we’re not going to end up with things like heart disease.

So, we’ve heard of many people saying, “Oh, heart disease is in my family. You know, I’ve got high cholesterol.” And they just accept that as their fate because that’s their family history. When you test someone like that, they will have an MTHFR polymorphism, either homozygous or heterozygous, because actually, 30% of the population have the polymorphism in heterozygous, and 10% have the homozygous. When you’re homozygous, that means you’ve got two copies from parents. When you’re heterozygous, you got one copy. And there you have the inability to produce energy, you can’t detoxify properly, you can’t absorb nutrients properly from food. Then when your methylation cycle can’t work, the methionine pathway can’t work, your homocysteine can’t get recycled, then you can’t detoxify properly.

So, when you’ve got one gene, you lose your ability to detoxify by up to 30%. When you’ve got the double homo, you will lose 50% of unable to detoxify from your body, which is quite huge, because if we can’t detoxify, then our liver can’t function correct, our gallbladder can’t function, therefore, we get leaky gut, and SIBO, and all of these other things. It starts off usually with a small thing inside the body that’s not right, and then it just gets worse. As the person gets older, they can’t methylate as well, and therefore, as we age as well, the symptoms and the signs start appearing more regularly. So, a lot of people come in their 40s-plus, going, “I don’t understand what’s happening with my body. I’ve got all these things that I never had before.” So, as we age, methylation also controls how we age. So, we can get grey hair quicker if we’re not methylating properly. We can lose hair if we’re not methylating properly. It creates anemia. It creates lots of other things as well. Yeah.

Andrew: For our listeners out there that aren’t watching the video, I just brushed my receding hair line. Zelda, so when we’re talking about the two common polymorphisms, or the two polymorphisms of note, with regards to methylation, what is it, the 1287 and the 677T? So, do you say 1287C, is it, and the 677T?

Zelda: Yes, there’s usually an A at the front of it. Yep. And then the other one is the C at the front with 677T at the end. The C677T has been linked a lot more to cardiovascular disease, and diabetes, osteoporosis, and high levels of anxiety, even schizophrenia, bipolar. But believe it or not, there’s actually 30 different polymorphisms in that one gene. Thirty. Wow. So, we’ve actually only studied two in depth, because they’re the ones that they’ve found to be the most common, but there are 30 in total. When you can’t methylate properly, as I was explaining, the other genes then can get turned on and cause other problems.

So, the methylation cycle is one of first when we eat food, we wanna get natural folate into our body. And when we can’t methylate properly, the other biochemical cycles happen after that. So, when we can’t create enough methyl groups, the other cycles can’t work correctly. I mean, one of the most important things that we make from methylating is an enzyme called SAM-e. It’s got a big long chemical name, I won’t bore you with it, but I just call it SAM-e. So, next to ATP, which is the energy that we create to use in our body, SAM-e then controls 200 other genes and functions in our body, which is quite huge. And SAM-e is created in our methyl cycle.

Andrew: Yeah. So, the question I was gonna ask is where do we start with regards to assessment? Do you start with a genetic sort of profile and there you go? Because I’ve heard of people getting quite worried, particularly with fertility issues, even pregnancies, where they think they’re gonna pass on a cleft palate and, you know, unequivocably to their child, their unborn child. Denise Furness has seen patients where they wanted to get termination of pregnancy because they’ve been shown this result without any qualified advice around how you manage that. So, you’ve got that assessment, but then you’ve got assessments like homocysteine, methylmalonic acid, I don’t know if you can measure S-adenosyl-L-methionine, SAM-e. How do you start with assessments? Where do you go with this? Do you go biochemical, or genetic, or a mixture of both?

Zelda: It’s really good to do a full profile. I mean, I generally start off with basic full blood counts from looking at, you can actually do a folate serum test and a active B12. So, B12 levels are a great indication of also not being able to methylate properly, along with B6 and also B9. I honestly love the organic oats test where you do the organic metabolites in the urine. That gives you a massive amount of indication on what’s happening inside the body, because with a blood test, sometimes people can have a high B12 level inside their blood, that doesn’t actually mean that it’s being utilized intracellular. Same as folate. It can be in the blood, but is it actually getting into the cells to do what it needs to do?

I like to do a genetic test. I like to do full blood count profile. I also love to look at the functionality of the liver and the gall bladder, because they are very vital in making sure that we’re producing enough phosphatidylcholine, because phosphatidylcholine needs to be made to function our gallbladder correctly. And that also can lead to a lot of SIBO. And SAM-e produces and helps produce phosphatidylcholine. So, if we’re not making enough methyl groups, we can’t produce SAM-e, and 70% of our SAM-e is utilized in making phosphatidylcholine.

So, I look at basically a lot of things to verify, because the genetic testing, as you just said, can scare some people. They don’t like to know all of their cheeky genes at play. So, if they don’t want to know that I can look more at symptoms, what they’re feeling like. I can usually pin it mostly on anyway, but then some people want to see that test. So, it’s really up to the individual. But if you’re generally not feeling well, feeling anxious, feeling stressed and you can’t work out why because you’re eating a healthy diet, you’ve got a good chance of you’re undermethylating and that gene is not behaving itself.

Andrew: So, this is where we sort of go back to whether the pedal hits the metal and that is diet. So, regardless of our assessments, whether they be genetic or using pathology lab tests or whatever, we come back to the supporting of those methylation genes with diet and judicious supplementation. I get that. But you can’t do the supplementation without the diet.

Zelda: Exactly.

Andrew: Yeah, green leafy vegetables are the biggest maker. So, when we’re talking about people that present to you with an existing problem, let’s say, anxiety. We’re gonna talk about SIBO in a tick. They’ve got an ingrained dietary pattern. How do you then change that by the use of encouragement or knowledge, so that you get them to understand what their diet is doing to them and how a changed diet can help their condition?

Zelda: One of the massive important vital steps that I would take with someone is gluten. You know, you might not be gluten intolerant, but if you’re undermethylating and you eat foods with gluten, the gluten actually has the ability to block the folate receptors in our methylation cycle. So, if we’re already undermethylating and eating gluten in our diet, you’re not gonna absorb any methylfolate at all. No matter how many. Like, you’d have to eat a serious bucket load of greens every day to be able to get any through.

And I explain also a big style that gluten affects the gallbladder and the bile flow. So, gluten can block bile receptors in our gallbladder, so we cannot produce enough bile, can’t produce enough obviously, phosphatidylcholine, which we also need to help function. So, I sort of sit down and I explain… I try to start off with small dietary changes as a step forward. I say, “Give me 30 days, let’s go gluten-free,” and not drink dairy milk as well because dairy milk will also affect the body’s ability to absorb proper methylfolate.

So, those are two big steps that I would ask them to do and try to obviously avoid the dirty dozen that have been heavily sprayed with glyphosate. And then also try to embrace more salads, greens, broccoli, kale, more green things into their diet. And then supplement on the side as required with essential nutrients and methylfolate when their body is ready. You have to build the foundation first. You just can’t throw methylfolate at the problem. There’s a lot of work that needs to be done on the gall first. And if there is underlying dietary issues, because that’s what can be causing the dietary issues inside their digestive tract, extra bloating, diarrhea, or some people have massive chronic constipation due to the fact that they can’t methylate properly.

Andrew: Right. So, this is sort of an answer, if you’d like, for SIBO. Everybody wants the answer. I don’t subscribe to the fact of one size fits all. But you do a lot of work with SIBO. How is methylation tied into this?

Zelda: Well, because the methylation creates our important SAM-e, and our SAM-e is the important factor. Seventy per cent of its production is used to create phosphatidylcholine to get the gallbladder and the gall to actually function and create bile flow. So, unfortunately, some people end up with their gallbladder removed due to gallstones. So, we need the SAM-e to make phosphatidylcholine, and then the phosphatidylcholine helps stop fatty liver, helps stop producing gallstones, and making sure that our bile is flowing quite freely. Without the methyl groups being able to make the SAM-e, and without the SAM-e to make the phosphatidylcholine, then we’re not having the bile flow, therefore, a lot of bacteria can then build up inside the digestive tract and cause the SIBO, and they can then overgrow.

The answer is not to throw phosphatidylcholine at it either though because you have to do gallbladder work first, unblock the bioreceptors, remove the gluten from your diet, remove the dairy milk from your diet, and then you can go in with a few other things like phosphatidylserine is one of my favourites, or butyrate is really good in fixing SIBO. And then looking at molybdenum and biotin, it’s fantastic for helping SIBO as well, so that you can properly digest sulphur foods. So, a lot of SIBO diets will say don’t eat sulphur foods. We need sulphur. We need the sulphur in our systems to help digest the food. So, going on a low-sulphur diet is actually quite dangerous in the long run. Not good for you to do that.

Andrew: Right. You know, what you’re speaking about there at the beginning with regards to phosphatidylcholine, certainly phosphatidylserine, it’s part of the cholesterol triad where basically there’s only this small sliver down in the bottom corner of the triangle where cholesterol is kept in solution, and it’s governed by the level of cholesterol, which is, you know, if we were going to reduce it, that’s contentious, I get that. But there’s also the amount of choline and the amount of bile acids involved in there, of which, you know, we’ve got vitamin E, taurine, all of these other things that help make up bile acid.

So, when you’re talking about that… Forgive me, I was gonna mention it. For those people that don’t know or can’t imagine what I’m talking about, we’ll put the link up in the show notes on the website for this image so that you can get how the idea turns into therapy. But what I was gonna ask you, Zelda, is where do you start with, you know, you mentioned gluten, so trying to get people off gluten because it helps make sludge, but what about the use of various herbs, choline for instance with nutrients, taurine, things like that, vitamin E? What do you use in that cholesterol management in that to keep the cholesterol from…

Zelda: Yeah, I really love taurine, like amino acid taurine is one of my favourite go-tos because what also happens, you know, a lot of people will say things like, you know, “I feel like I can’t concentrate, and I’ve got a foggy brain.” So, that’s where taurine comes into play because what’s happening there is the ammonia is building up inside their system. And when we introduce taurine, not only does taurine support the gallbladder and the bile flow, but it actually starts mopping up the excess ammonia that’s in the system. So, taurine is one of my favourites as well, along with phosphatidylserine. I find phosphatidylserine is a better entry because if the gall is very sludgy, you don’t want us to throw it straight away at it phosphatidylcholine because it’s too strong, because the point is they cannot process fatty acids. So, we have to get that working first before we start giving things like that.

Andrew: So, with regards to that gallbladder issue, do you… You know, we’ve gotta be very cautious from a safety point of view about people who have got a single stone greater than one centimetre, because if we stimulate the gallbladder too much and that blocks the common bile duct, you’ve got a surgical emergency on your hands, not a medical emergency. So, do you get people assessed like with an ultrasound, for instance, to see if they’ve got sludge or, you know, gravel there?

Zelda: Yes, that’s a good idea to do that, just to check except if they’ve already had that problem in the past. And again, it usually can be a family history issue with gallstones and kidney stones. But then you need to also look at the oxalate content in food. So, there’s some foods that are very high in oxalates. So when you actually look at gallstones, they’re actually made up of oxalate particles, so that’s where they’ve been formed. And, you know, some people love going on these crazy celery juice diets, and that just drives me crazy because celery juice is so high in oxalates, as is beetroot. And a lot of people can suffer from gallstones because they’re juicing large quantities of celery and beetroot. Oh, and then they like to throw the carrots in too.

So, there we have three very high oxalate foods that they’re thinking they’ve been told it’s healthy to do, and in the meantime, their gallbladder and their liver is just trying to keep up processing all of those oxalates, and then that can cause the stones forming. So, it’s always good to check how big they are before… And you can break them down as well through changing their diet and taking a few extra supplements.

Andrew: Yeah. I remember reading in Pizzorno and Murray’s Encyclopedia of Natural Medicine about that breaking down of gallstones using a formula of these, if I say the word volatile oils it’ll be incorrect, but, you know, eugenol and things like that from various sources. But what I thought was hilarious is that the next sentence says, “Or you can use peppermint.” Okay. So, it’s really…

Zelda: Yeah, because it’s a lot easier

Andrew: So, the only issue I’d have with peppermint there would be anybody who had gastroesophageal reflux. So, I’d take the enteric-coated peppermint, but for most people it should be fine, but I just thought it was hilarious, this complicated formula or peppermint. But how do you people… Sorry. How do you find people go with this? What sort of results have you had? And, you know, we’re Shanghaiing ourselves, I guess, into the gallbladder, but what you’ve got to think about is obviously the management of distal symptoms from treating the liver. So, anything from anxiety, and headaches to SIBO and all that sort of issues. That’s a complex sort of thing about where do you put the main part of your therapy, where do you put your eggs in most baskets sort of thing?

Zelda: I usually ask people to list their top three health goals. So, you know, you can’t fix it in one hit, you know, especially if you have an MTHFR mutation. It can generally be fixed within three to nine months of work and guidance. And then after that, you know, I’ve educated them on what they need to eat and what they need to do. But you always look at all of the massive co-factors in every biochemical reaction. For most people that can’t methylate it means that all of those are being stolen by all of the other cycles that can’t work.

So, you’re always going to generally be low in magnesium. You know, you’re always generally gonna be low in zinc. They’re always gonna generally be low in copper. They’re always generally gonna be low in B12. B12 is so vital to all of the systems, from anxiety, and depression, to creating energy, and all of the biochemical pathways. So, it’s always a good starting point to support the foundations like that. First, fix the diet, and then afterwards, then you can go into tetrahydrofolate supplementation after the foundation is built. It’s always a good idea to do the foundation first.

Andrew: Right. Gotcha.

Zelda: …to make sure that the bile is flowing correctly.

Andrew: Yeah. And what about simple things like, you know, teaching people how to eat, teaching people simple skills, tips, hints and tips to help with digestion, like chewing your food till its paste, stop eating when you’re stressed?

Zelda: One of the questions on my forum is do you chew your food or eat like a snake?

Andrew: Or eat like a?

Zelda: Eat like a snake. So, some people don’t chew properly, they just like literally swallow.

Andrew: Gulp it down. Right.

Zelda: You have to get the saliva flowing. You have to get everything… You know you tell your body, “There’s food coming.” You have to properly chew, you have to properly digest. I give them tips on the best types of food to buy, the best source of whole foods. Whole foods is always good, better than processed. Avoid processed foods, avoid anything with artificial colours, flavours, and preservers. Avoid monosodium glutamate.

And one of the big things when it comes to methylation is avoid folic acid. So, folic acid is a synthetic form of folate, and our bodies cannot absorb much folic acid synthetically. And when we look at cereals and breads and lots of things now, they love to advertise them as being fortified. And when it says it’s fortified, unfortunately, that means artificial folic acid, and that builds up in your system, and it’s got nowhere to go, and it’s stuck, and it’s really not good for us. So, I give them all of that kind of advice to avoid things like that, and supplements with folic acid.

Andrew: Say that again, sorry.

Zelda: A lot of on-the-shelf supplements, especially with the vitamin ones will use folic acid as their B9, they say, but that’s not what we want.

Andrew: Yeah. I’ve interviewed Carolyn Ledowsky a couple of times about this in her master’s project. She’s now doing her PhD on this issue. And I’ve gotta admit, and I admitted to Carolyn, I was one of those people. I was one of those people that said, “Nah, you can just use bulk doses of folic acid and barge your way through.” It seems I was way wrong. It seems that you don’t just weed this stuff out like is commonly thought, that indeed there does tend to be an issue in un-metabolized folic acid floating around the body and causing other issues. That’s a whole new area of research, isn’t it?

Zelda: Well, that’s the thing, and, you know, you were misinformed like everyone really has been. It’s not until recently proper research has been done to prove that folic acid is bad for women that want to fall pregnant. It’s not the type of proper folate that their body needs or wants. And then, you know, the second that someone does fall pregnant, that’s one of the first things that they’ll get put on is folic acid. I have pregnant mothers coming to me with horrendous sickness, morning sickness, and one of the first questions I asked, “Are you taking folic acid?” And they usually answer, “Of course I am.” And I’m like, “Okay, well there’s your problem. Stop taking folic acid and your nausea will go away.” And within three days later they’re just, their nausea goes.

Andrew: Oh, really?

Zelda: It’s all that artificial folic acid was building up in their system and was making them feel really ill.

Andrew: So, forgive me. That’s incredible. So, you change their folic acid. Sorry, forgive me. You change their folate source from folic acid to MTHF, and within three days their gravidarum hyperemesis, their pregnancy nausea resolves. That’s…

Zelda: Yeah, they were like, “I can’t believe it, I don’t wanna throw up every couple of hours anymore.” And they feel a lot better straight away. And within three days, they feel so much better.

Andrew: So, that’s quite a simple intervention when you think about it. You’re still giving them a folate, so you’re still within healthy guidelines of helping to protect the newborn or the developing fetus from neural tube defects, whilst alleviating a major issue that’s robbing the developing baby of other nutrients, and that’s hyperemesis.

Zelda: Yes. Yes. Such a simple solution.

Andrew: So, I’ve got a question for you there, Zelda. Often these patients go onto the serotonin antagonists, you know, the wafers and the tablets, the antiemetics that are very commonly used in cancer treatment, in oncology support. Is the use of methylfolate helping in any way the production or the management of serotonin in the gut and thereby settling down that hyperemesis that way?

Zelda: One hundred and fifty million per cent.

Andrew: Wow.

Zelda: Yeah, like 5-methyl-tetrahydrofolate is fantastic to make sure that our body is producing also enough SAM-e, which is also making sure that there is a proper balance inside the body of serotonin and dopamine and melatonin. So, it makes sure that there’s a proper scale going on inside the body. So, that’s why 5-methyl-tetrahydrofolate is amazing for so many different things.

Andrew: Gotcha. And of course, when we’re talking about the methylation cycle, we get sort of hooked into a little bit the MTHF, but we’ve also got B12, and then you’ve got, oh, which form of B12? Do you have the cyanocobalamin, again, which I was wrong on? I thought cyano just meant red because when you draw it up in the vial, it’s red, but it is not, it’s cyanide attached to cobalamin. And then you’ve got the mecobalamin, the methylcobalamin, hydroxocobalamin, but you’ve got other forms of cobalamin, which we’re not allowed to use as supplement in Australia, which occur in our metabolism. You know, the acetyl form for instance. Do you ever employ these? How do you get people to change the way they’re thinking about these other B vitamins and how they’re taking them, what they’re taking ’em for?

Zelda: When it comes to B12 it’s usually good like for the foundation to start off with hydroxy B12, which we do have access to in Australia. And hydroxy B12 is one of my first go-tos, especially if someone has blood pressure issues, or if they’re consistently always feeling dizzy, that would be my first go-to on the hydroxy. And sometimes you can get a hydroxy and an adeno B12 blend, which is great. And then when that foundation’s built, then that’s when you can go in with the methyl B12, because we have to get the methylation cycle working first. If you start throwing lots of methyls at it, and it is blocked, and it’s not functioning, there’s nowhere for the methyls to go. So, we have to make sure that the foundation is there. But hydroxy B12 would be one of my very first steps in the B12 solution.

Andrew: Gotcha. Gotcha. And things like B6 for instance, do you favour the use of pyridoxal 5′-phosphate? Do you use pyridoxine hydrochloride? I know, you know, the TGA is rather down on pyridoxine at the moment, but I think that’s, A, more due to pyridoxine hydrochloride. I guess, the other thing is like I’ve never ever seen an issue with higher doses of B6. They now seem to be limiting it to, what is it? 25 or 50 milligrams. It’s crazy. I haven’t seen these issues that the TGA is talking about.

Zelda: I believe that B6 is, again, we can’t methylate properly. It’s something that’s usually very deficient inside the body. Another signal on that is having very high levels of homocysteine because B6 can help reduce homocysteine levels inside the body. And P5P is my preferred option when it comes to B6. So, those are the foundations that you would start off before you start throwing methyls at someone who can’t methylate properly. You would do the hydroxy B12, the P5P, all of that kind of thing would be great to start off with.

Andrew: Gotcha. And you mentioned right at the beginning that there are so many more polymorphisms than just the two that are commonly spoken about. So, when we’re talking about these, we get the proper forms from food, we are very often restricted in what we can give with supplements. So, where do you go with helping somebody with that broad spectrum of methylation across the whole gamut of polymorphisms? Do you ever have to, you know, choose let’s say a B supplement, B vitamin supplement that’s got all of the active forms, or should we just say, “Look, eat just green leafy vegetables and bang them into you?” Obviously, being mindful of oxalates, which I picked up. Like, what’s your go-to there when you’ve got… You need the B12 from the green leafy vegetables, but you’ve got the oxalate issue. How do you find the path to tread?

Zelda: That’s why you have to look at everything. You have to look at diet, you have to look at lifestyle, you know, you have to look at environmental toxins as well. You know, as I had mentioned earlier, when you have the MTHFR polymorphism, you can’t detoxify properly. So, are you living in a mouldy environment? Are you working in a job where you’re dealing with a lot of chemicals, and you’re breathing in polluted air? There are so many factors. So, you have to look at the complete picture in that person’s life from where they’re living, to what they eat, to their lifestyle. Do they exercise? Do they take time out? Do they have a high-stress job? All of these factors are very integral in working out the correct treatment plan. And then look at how to detoxify the body for them so that they can start to feel better and get more energy.

And I always believe in supplements as required. It’s not good to throw 500 supplements in one hit and pray for the best. It’s supplement as required. It’s good to just start off small, change diets, do some tweaks here and there, and alleviate some of the original symptoms, and then you’ve got a foundation that you can build on to start alleviating the rest, and you just do it in different phases. So, I usually have phase one and phase two and phase three, and usually, by phase three that’s it. You know, usually, most of those little things have been fixed, and it depends though if we’ve got a mass cell activation. Now, that takes a few more phases because now we’re dealing with not just MTHFR genes, but we could be dealing with about 12 to 14 other ones. So, you have to just calm down the methylation gene first because it has the ability to turn off or on the other genetics. So, you’ve got a lot of histamine sensitivities, so that can cause a lot of problems with people as well. So, it’s about reducing histamine inside the body. And the methylation cycle is very vital to reducing histamines throughout the body.

Andrew: Gotcha. Now, we’ve spoken about diet, lifestyle, and judicious use of supplements, and we’ve spoken about SIBO a little bit, but can I ask therein, do you utilize probiotics to help with, say, the production of B12 or the production of methylated vitamins with regards to SIBO? Because, you know, we’ve gone through this thing about don’t give probiotics, at least the ones that we have available to us in Australia, the 14 or so species. So, do you utilize probiotics to help with SIBO, or do you have to sort of start right back at, you know, as you mentioned, diet, lifestyle, and use probiotic supplements only in certain cases?

Zelda: I feel like the best approach for when it comes to SIBO, there’s a gene that’s called PEMT is usually at play with SIBO. And PEMT requires SAM-e, which is the methyl donor created through our methylation pathway. So, PEMT actually utilizes up to 70% of the SAM-e that we produce, and it’s the PEMT then that keeps the gall bile flowing, and produces the phosphatidylcholine, stops gallstones, all of that. So, I prefer to do diet work first, help the gallbladder, and look at eating a lot of prebiotic foods first. And then, after that has been done, then you go in with a great probiotic. And we’ve got, yep, some great ones available on the shelf. And so, then we do that after phase two to help with SIBO.

Andrew: Yeah, we’ll have to delve…

Zelda: Yeah. If they have an issue eating sulphur-based foods, then you fix that as well in phase one. So, you can fix that with something simple like molybdenum and biotin, which helps to get the bad bacteria under control inside the intestinal tract, first, and then you fix the gallbladder, and then after that come in with the probiotic.

Andrew: Gotcha. There are obviously so many rabbit holes we can go down here. There’s a whole series of podcasts on various topics. Zelda, thank you for taking us through an overview because it’s very often missed with regard to methylation. And, you know, one of the areas I think we didn’t investigate too much on unfortunately in this podcast is what Ben Lynch talks about, and that is to look upstream from what we think is the problem. We always look upstream. Maybe that’s a topic for another podcast with you. But thank you so much for taking us through this pragmatic practical approach to methylation issues today on “Wellness by Designs.” I very much appreciate you.

Zelda: Thank you very much for your time, Andrew. That was great. Thank you.

Andrew: And thank you for joining us today. Remember, you can catch up on today’s podcast, the show notes, and all the other podcasts on the Designs for Health website. I’m Andrew Whitfield-Cook, this is “Wellness by Designs.”