Andrew: Well, my only problem is that we’re only gonna have about 40 minutes to talk. I wish we had a couple of hours, Ben. So, let’s get started because I really want to drag as much information out of that brain of yours as I can. Firstly, can we explore what’s different about Safr’Inside? You prepare it in a different way, don’t you?

Benoit: Yeah, exactly. Actually, the secret is to respect the raw material. Maybe you know that the saffron, the raw material, is the most expensive raw material in the world.

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Benoit: And then you need to make an extract, which is quite easy. You can even do that when you cook, actually, yeah? It’s a spice. But, for the industrial application, you need two different things. First, you need to have a dry extract. So, you need to dry your extract. And second, you need to be sure that you have always the same profile and the same specifications that was used in the clinical studies, otherwise how can you be sure that you have the same efficiency? It’s easy to say, but don’t forget that in the saffron extract, or any other extract, you have about 100 to 150 different molecules. And we don’t know all of them. So, the first thing is to respect the raw material. And in the saffron, when you smell the saffron, the spice, you detect directly a very typical smell, which is the safranal. The name of the molecule is safranal, coming from the saffron. And because you smell it, it means it’s a volatile compound, easy to extract, but difficult to keep when you dry, because the boiling point is 70 degrees Celsius, where the water, of course, is 100. So, whatever you do, whatever the condition you do, you will lose first the safranal. So it means you buy the most expensive one, and you lose one of the most important molecule. Doesn’t make sense.

So, we was working first to know the composition of the original raw material. So, the first publication we did, it’s not about science. It’s just about analytical method. And then you can make the maceration. If you cannot make any maceration, it means you are not engineer. You cannot progress. And, based on that, we develop a very traditional…there is nothing new. It’s just to apply a technology that is more talking about adsorption, and then more encapsulation. Why? Because we are based in Europe. We have the pleasure to be in Europe, and the regulation in Europe is getting worse and worse, and we don’t have the right to do something new. We call that novel food. It’s worse than the TGA, believe me. And…yes, it’s possible. And so, we cannot invent a new system. No. We need to use the traditional system.

Andrew: Right.

Benoit: And you know what is the best system of adsorption in the world? Rice. Yes. Rice is the best. When you cook the rice, you start to make the water hot. Yeah? Okay? You boil the water, and then you add the rice. If, at that moment, or when you make a risotto, no, you don’t need the water at that moment, but it’s the same process. If you had anything that will give smell or taste at that moment, it will go inside the rice, during the cooking process. Industrially speaking, it means you have a protection against oxidation and evaporation. If you do that with the saffron in your kitchen, you will see that the rice start to be yellow, but if you cut the rice, you will see it’s yellow inside.

Andrew: Inside.

Benoit: We just do the same. Basically, we do the same, so it’s a natural process, but at industrial scale, and of course, to be sure that we have always the same composition. So, it’s just that. The secret is just that. But because of that, we keep the original safranal. And that’s why we are… Sorry. [crosstalk 00:05:10]

Andrew: No, I was just gonna say, what about the…there’s two other main bioactives that we discussed, but as you say, saffron is hundreds of molecules.

Benoit: Yeah.

Andrew: But let’s just talk about the crocin and picrocrosin as well.

Benoit: Oh, yeah.

Andrew: How do you stabilize those? What’s their importance?

Benoit: Oh, yeah. Definitively yeah. So, first, crocins. They are carotenoids. They are responsible for the red color of the stigma of saffron. And that’s the only carotenoids that I know that are soluble in water. So, easy to protect in the same process of encapsulation, because there will be also adsorb, and in fact, my example of the color is based on the carotenoids. So, you have a better protection, and it means, directly, that if you have a better protection, you need to use less starting raw material to get the same specification at the end of the process. So, it means it’s cheaper.

Andrew: Right.

Benoit: Because you don’t destroy… When you make extraction, whatever [crosstalk 00:06:12]

Andrew: Oh, I see what you mean.

Benoit: Yeah, soon you make an extraction, it means you remove the molecules from the natural matrix that it was growing. So, you start to have degradation. Could be oxidation, could be evaporation, could be hydrolyzation. There could be many things. And that’s why you need to control temperature, pH, and condition, at industrial scale. But if you have, during the extraction, you are doing also the adsorption in the encapsulation, you save a lot of raw material, because you protect directly, and you prevent the degradation that you naturally have, even in your kitchen, but much more at industrial scale, because we have a scale effect.

Andrew: So, is it kind of like the garlic story? Like, you know, we have to freeze-dry it, so we have to protect the cell from degradation from the allicin to alliin…sorry, alliin to allicin.

Benoit: Yeah, it’s…

Andrew: And broccoli sprout extract is another one, the myrosinase, where it gets released, and so you need myrosinase and the glucosinolates to make sulforaphane. But if you have sulforaphane, it’s not gonna last. Same sort of thing.

Benoit: Exactly the same. It means you are, especially that saffron is, again, the most expensive one that you can work on. So it makes sense to invest in a protection system, that will protect the natural molecule. And also another thing, you mentioned the picrocrosin. There is also the crocetins. There is the camphor. There’s many other… What we know is that the saffron is working. Extract of saffron, that’s another story. You need to make your own study to prove that. But the saffron is used since 3,000 years, for, against stress, for sleep, and for menopausal as well, and many other application. So, what it means, it’s not an extract. It’s the powder, directly. A different quantity, different qualities, that’s the problem.

Andrew: Yeah.

Benoit: So, when you are promoting something with clinical study, you need to respect the raw material. It means you know the molecule, you know the full spectrum. And again, if you change the ratio between, there is, for example, six different crocins. If you change the ratio because one of them is maybe more sensitive to…you know? It’s not exactly the same product at the end. So, our job, the secret, if I can say, of our job, is, like, I love…you can imagine, as a French guy, I really love to eat, and I love to go to the best restaurant. And I’m always impressed because I have exactly the same raw material, but I never get the same result as the cook, you know? It’s exactly the same. What we need to respect, we need to have the good material, but then the process is also important. But in our case, it’s not for the taste. It’s to be sure that you have always the same efficiency. So, you have bio-indicators, like the safranal or the crocins, but, you know, the specification on the market is 2% safranal, and 3% crocins. So, it’s 5%. I will ask you a question. Do you like the car? Because, I have a wonderful car here, $200,000. But you know what, the seat, the seat is wonderful. It’s you know, massage, integrated, it’s so… But you know what, the seat is only 5% of the car. Do you will buy because the seat is wonderful?

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Benoit: So, why you do that with the most expensive raw material? You need the full spectrum. And you need bio-indicators. You need to know the crocins, but you need to take care about the raw material. That’s my responsibility.

Andrew: Can I ask you, with regards to looking at raw material, choosing raw material, you know, there seems to be these sort of three quality…what do I say, the raw materials qualities, like the, there’s the Pushal…

Benoit: Oh, yeah.

Andrew: …the Negin, and the [crosstalk 00:10:12]

Benoit: [inaudible 00:10:13]

Andrew: …stuff…Sargol. Sargol.

Benoit: Sargol, sargol.

Andrew: And yet, I remember one site I went to said that the Negin was basically a made-up thing, and it was the…Pushal?

Benoit: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: Is that the one which is used, or…?

Benoit: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly, exactly. So, that’s interesting. Actually, you know, again, saffron is expensive. So, the Iranian, they are very smart. Since many, many years, they are the biggest producer of saffron in the world, and produce, like, 85%, maybe 90% of the production. Still no, still no, I don’t… So, they have a knowledge. And because they are pretty good in business also, since centuries, they are, and that’s one of the secret to produce the saffron stigmas, you don’t cut the stigmas. You don’t cut the three stigmas that you have in every flower, of crocus sativus. No. You need to pull…

Andrew: Pick it. Yeah.

Benoit: …slowly. And then you have also a little part of the stigma that, it was inside the flower.

Andrew: In the white.

Benoit: But, interesting… Yeah. And they are without color and without smell. Why? Because crocus sativus, the saffron, the flower of saffron, they don’t care about giving anti-stress to humanity. No. What they want is that the insect is coming on the flower, for the pollination. And it needs what? Color, the crocins, and the smell, safranal. So, the highest concentration of those molecules are on the Sargol quality. Sargol, in Farsi, means top of the flower. And, because they are good in business, it’s still the name saffron, but the quality is totally different. Yeah?

Andrew: Right.

Benoit: So, yeah. It’s like the beef. You have different part of the beef, it’s not the same price, correct?

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

Benoit: It’s exactly the same. And the quality is not the same. Depend what you want to do. So, I don’t say this part is not good, but I say it’s not adapted for the medicinal use we want to do, because traditionally, they was not using the other part.

Andrew: Yeah.

Benoit: So, one of the guarantee is that 100% of the saffron we use is coming from a specific area in Khorasan province of Iran. We are working with them since more than 10 years. And they are excellent to produce. And, we are using only the Sargol. Only that, that’s a guarantee from Activ’Inside, because that’s also our interest. It’s more expensive to buy, for sure, but the concentration, concentration in molecules, are nothing to compare.

Andrew: Gotcha. Okay. So, let’s, now, because you and I, seriously, I could talk to you for hours, just about the plant. Let’s talk about clinical trials, because this is somewhere where you’ve really shined.

Benoit: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: So, when we’re talking about these compounds, the crocins, the safranal, how do these compounds respond differently, how do they act differently, when you’re talking about humans, and you’re talking about chronic stress, maybe, versus acute stress, say?

Benoit: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, definitively, yes, so, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, if you look at all the studies on the traditional saffron extract, made by Iranian universities, other universities, and also industrial, like Activ’Inside, and they have proprietary study they published, if you look all of them, all of them they are talking about stress. All of them, they are not really precise about the mechanism. They are putative mechanisms sometimes, but not really clear. And, more important, all the studies is made on a long term, like, it’s a chronic studies, about, I think a minimum, I can see it’s two months. So, why? Because they are following your stress status during time, okay? Why not? But when you have a stress, you don’t want to wait two months, correct? So, that’s why we was investigated to a acute effect.

Andrew: Right.

Benoit: And it’s coming. And then to understand that, you need, again, to understand which molecule is responsible for what. So, clearly, safranal, the real safranal, because I will come back on that, but there is two kind of safranal, but the real safranal is acting on the serotonin receptors. Exactly like the Prozac. But the Prozac is doing only that, so it’s a inhibition of the reuptake of the serotonin. Which is the mechanism to make the regulation of your stress. So, because safranal is the volatile compound, very small molecule, we was expecting that you can have a very quick absorption, that you cannot have with carotenoids, the crocins, that are a long chain by definition. So, safranal is working on serotonin, and the crocins are working on the dopamine. And this is why you don’t have any side effect from the saffron compared to Prozac, because, again, you have the molecule that can make an equilibrium, and that’s what we love in the phytotherapy. Otherwise, if safranal is the most important, buy pure synthetic safranal then. But that’s the pharmaceutical industry is doing. And why not? But this is not phototherapy. This is not the respect of the tradition.

Andrew: Very true.

Benoit: And you see, dopamine is, I will say, that will give you a positive stress, and the serotonin is regulated by the same under condition, to have the good molecules, in the good ratio, and to use, and that’s the most important, the good analytical tools. That’s the second responsibility of an industrial that produce for you a saffron extract. Everyone was using the UV method. UV, or they call it also, ISO. But because, you know, saffron is a long, long history, and if you come back 100 years ago, there was no HPLC here on the market. So, they needed to make the evaluation of saffron with the analytical tools that was at that moment, and UV was the top-of-the-art technology, long time ago. So, they use UV, but UV is making the maceration of color. And, safranal is a volatile compound, without any color. Otherwise, every time you will smell the saffron, your nose will be pink…

Andrew: Yeah. Just…red.

Benoit: …or orange or whatever. Yeah. So, it’s not the good one, it’s the official one. And like many, many often, the regulation is not following so quick the evolution of the technologies. So, we developed. That’s the first things we developed. It’s a new analytical method, adapted to the different compounds, not only safranal, of the saffron. And, by UHPLC, ultra HPLC, you can make the analysis of the real safranal. Why is it so important? It’s because you have a ratio of 10 between UV and HPLC. So it means when people say 2% safranal, actually, the true is that they are at less than 0.2%. It’s not the same. But, good news, 0.2% is, it’s enough. But the problem is that the analytical method by UV is making analysis of everything except the safranal, because safranal, no color, again.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

Benoit: So, you have 2%, by UV. You call that safranal, but it’s not safranal. And that’s not acceptable. That’s not acceptable. You need the 2% safranal, because it’s a official method, okay, and because they was using that in the very old studies, makes sense, but this is not, today, enough. You need HPLC, like we do for the crocin as well.

Andrew: Yeah.
Benoit: And if you do that, then you realize that all the extract on the market, there is absolutely no exception, and I can give you a guarantee of that, you will see, there is nothing that have more than 0.01% of safranal on the market. Because they don’t do the encapsulation, and why they don’t do the encapsulation? Because this is the patent of Activ’Inside since 20 years.

Andrew: Is the ultra HPLC also a way or a method to thwart adulteration with saffron?

Benoit: Exactly. Yes.

Andrew: Because we’re now seeing this. Yeah?

Benoit: Yeah. Yeah. They was using, they can use, gardenia. Gardenia is also giving some crocins.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Benoit: Okay? So, but it’s not the price of the saffron.

Andrew: Yes.

Benoit: So, you can imagine that sometimes, or by accident, of course, you have, they did a blend with some gardenia. And gardenia is the same molecule, it’s the same crocins as the saffron. So, if you use HPLC, you don’t just see a peak, you see a peak and you say, “Well, it’s crocin.” If you are using UHPLC, the peaks start to be just a little bit different.

Andrew: Yeah. Right.

Benoit: But you need the U, for ultra. Ultra power. And, making that, we don’t have any adulteration in our quality control, but we are able to make analysis of any kind of safranal during the process. And safranal is the most responsible for the acute effect. So, that’s why, to make it very clear, all the saffron extract on the market, they work, because they have crocin, working on dopamine. But, you need time. It’s a chronic process.

Andrew: Yeah.

Benoit: And that’s okay. But, we don’t want to have only chronic, so that’s why we need the safranal. And to need the safranal, you need the encapsulation. And that’s all patent.

Andrew: So, I can see, like, when you were talking about the neurotransmitters involved, the serotonin and dopamine, and you’re talking about how you can now work in acutely stressful situations. I’m thinking things like, you know, acute stress, obviously, duh. So, somebody’s just received some bad news, somebody gets acute anxiety.

Benoit: Exactly.

Andrew: Irritable bowel syndrome, ADD, autism, these neuroatypical conditions, where they might have a flare, I can hope that these may have a use for these quite acute situations. In my mind, things like IBS, where a stressful event can set up a flare, often in, they’re often seen in adults. It’s gonna be hard to look at kids with this sort of thing, but I can just see research opportunities opening up for this, in so many aspects.

Benoit: Yeah, especially that you don’t have any side effects. In any of the studies we did, there is absolutely no side effect. And more than that, you have a first effect on the acute stress. And higher is the acute stress, better it will work, because, again, it’s a system of regulation, and you come back to the normal. It’s just like this. But, you still, you can take Safr’Inside every day, and then you will have a prevention effect against the chronic stress, that is coming from several acute stress you get all the time.

Andrew: The crocins. Yeah.

Benoit: And I just would like to explain maybe, one of the last clinical study we did, to be sure that safranal is working on the serotonin. Because that’s a very original design. Maybe you know that, so, the serotonin is produced in the synapse part of the neurons. So, in the brain. So, the only way to be sure, it’s not in vitro test, because you lose all the digestion process.

Andrew: No. Yeah.

Benoit: We are not making injection, of course, so you need to eat the Safr’Inside. So, we did what we call an ex vivo clinical study. So, what it means, simply that we were giving Safr’Inside, to eat, to some people, to human. Before that, we take a sample of plasma. Before that, after 30 minutes, because we know that’s the peak of absorption, we take another sample of plasma, and we keep that. The first part of the study is finished. Then, we was working with universities in France that are able to collect human tissue when you pass away. Of course, no diseases here, a accident or something like that. And then we have access to the fresh brain tissue. And, on the other side, you still have your human plasma. And then you have to put it in the same condition, and you recreate it, exactly what happened. Just, the time you do it is different, and the people you do that is different. But the interest is that you can be sure that you have all the metabolite that, even me, I don’t know what could be, at the good concentration, in the plasma. We are talking about 0.2% safranal, and 3% crocin, in 30 milligrams of extract, that you give to someone that has maybe 5 or 6 liters of plasma. So, it’s not easy.

And when we did that, we proved that if… It’s true. The saffron, the Safr’Inside is working, clearly, on the inhibition and the reuptake of the serotonin. But we also did exactly the same protocol with the pure safranal, to be sure that it’s coming not from another metabolite that you don’t know.

Andrew: Ah. Yep.

Benoit: And it works. But, lower than the Safr’Inside. So, yes. So, yes, the safranal is responsible for the action on the serotonin, but probably also other molecules that I don’t know, but working synergistically.

Andrew: Yeah, that’s right.

Benoit: Again, the equilibrium, the respect of the profile of the raw material, that’s it. But the tools we are using is coming from the pharmaceutical industry. But the mindset is the phytotherapy.

Andrew: Yeah. How often have we seen this with plants, though? Back in the ’60s, ’70s, they used to make a very unstable blood pressure drug called Reserpine, from the herb Rauwolfia.

Benoit: Yeah, yeah.

Andrew: Now, Rauwolfia, Gandhi used to take Rauwolfia.

Benoit: Right.

Andrew: No problems. But Reserpine? Highly unstable. You see it killed people everywhere. Was taken off the market because of that fact. So, again, we find that once…and this is my issue, if you like, with standardizing any herb to one compound, is what about the others? The plant is a plant. If you don’t want to do that, go and do drugs. Go and do medicine.

Benoit: Exactly.

Andrew: I said that wrong.

Benoit: And that’s the most exciting part, because if it’s just to make a pure purification, well, don’t use your time. Make a synthetic product.

Andrew: Yeah. That’s right.

Benoit: Look at the vitamin C. It’s the same. Exactly the same.

Andrew: Yeah. Yep.

Benoit: Look at the quantity of vitamin C, of pure vitamin C you need, but you don’t need that when you are eating a lemon juice. Why?

Andrew: Yeah.

Benoit: [inaudible 00:25:59] Even if you don’t understand, we have to respect that.

Andrew: Yeah. Absolutely. Can I ask you, Ben, with regards to serotonin receptor agonism, there’s different types of serotonin receptors in the body, different ones from the brain, from the gut, so I think…

Benoit: Yeah.

Andrew: …I’m gonna get this wrong, I know, but in the gut, I know there’s a four, and I think there’s a seven, but…blah, blah. And they help with propulsion and relaxation of the smooth muscle in the gut.

Benoit: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew: And so, I’m wondering if you’ve had, even if not a clinical trial, but just experientially, when you’re looking at people with stress, have you ever noted people are saying my gut symptoms have settled down? Do you get that often?

Benoit: We did a clinical study on that, obviously, because…

Andrew: Oh?

Benoit: Yeah, yeah. We know, by our own data, we have more than six different mechanisms proven, and that we publish. So, we have the serotonin, we have the dopamine from the crocins, but we have also a superb clinical study made in UK, with one of the most famous doctor working on the microbiota evolution. And for the first time, it’s not only for saffron, it’s true, but I will say, for any kind of extract, we was able to prove a link, a causal link, of direct effect between what you are eating, Safr’Inside, and the evolution of your microbiome.

Andrew: Oh.

Benoit: Yeah. More precisely, on Akkermansia. Interesting is that Akkermansia is very famous for the overweight people, but, in South Korea, they are focused on that microbiota for the stress.

Andrew: Right.

Benoit: Yeah. So, there is probably, I don’t know exactly, but we make an influence, and we can prove a direct link. And believe me, it was really difficult, because I don’t know how many different bacteria we have.

Andrew: Ah, yeah.

Benoit: So we, obviously, we was not selecting all of them, but that’s the… And everything I tell you here is published, huh? I can share the publication. Everyone can find that [inaudible 00:28:21] with the name [crosstalk 00:28:21]

Andrew: Oh, please.

Benoit: …will see. Yeah, yeah. My pleasure, of course. And that’s the first time we was able to prove that you have, finally, a mechanism, that it’s indirect to the stress. You are not acting directly on something that it’s on the stress, but we know that when you have stress, you have gut problem. And if you have gut problem, you have brain problem. That’s clear. It’s all, second brain is here.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. So, this is acting on the indole metabolites. Is that right?

Benoit: Exactly. Exactly.

Andrew: Yeah. Okay. All right. Cool.

Benoit: So, we are still looking for new mechanisms, because saffron is very old, 3,000 years of tradition, but it’s quite new, only 20, 30 years, that people start to see, oh, well, that’s why it’s working like that. The next product that we will develop is on the vision. And that’s totally different molecules.

Andrew: From saffron?

Benoit: Exactly. Exactly. Because, when you have a diabetic type two…

Andrew: [inaudible 00:29:29]

Benoit: …the first problem you can have is to lose your vision capacities.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah.

Benoit: And there is, again, I love that there is no drugs. The only way to stop it, not to come back, to cure, but to stop it, is to make injection, in the eyes, [vocalization 00:29:47] of strong antioxidant. And we know, and we have already four clinical studies showing that, actually, some molecules of the saffron, with higher concentration than we have for the stress, can prevent this problem. So, imagine, because we are talking about a food, there is no safety issue. So you can just have in the food, a food supplement, that, because you have diabetes. Okay. So you have to prevent the consequence. And that will be the next generation of saffron extract that is coming. So, I love the story because, yes, saffron is expensive, but so rich. And the good news is that the daily dosage is very low. That’s why, today, though, Activ’Inside, I created Activ’Inside a little bit less than 20 years ago, saffron was absolutely zero in the European market. Today, it’s number one or number two for the antistress product. And we just started a new office in USA. Well, the story is wonderful there. So, because that’s the biggest market in the world for food supplements. In America, you don’t have the right to be sick, otherwise it costs you your house, so…

Andrew: Yeah, well, very true.

Benoit: Yeah.

Andrew: They’re horrible, aren’t they?

Benoit: So, they love the prevention. And I know that. And in Australia, it’s a little bit new, but it’s time, because there is already saffron extract on different food supplements, for stress and sleep, and that’s wonderful. But it’s time to go for the next generation of saffron extract.

Andrew: Yeah.

Benoit: Encapsulated, respect of the food profile, and acute effect. The consumer needs to feel something very quickly, especially for stress or sleep problem. If you are talking about, okay, I need a better skin, maybe you will accept to wait one month, two months. You need that. But for stress, why you should wait two months?

Andrew: No, [inaudible 00:31:44] now. Yeah. Can I ask, because we’ve spoken about the acute anxiety and acute stressful conditions, but another one that’s crossing my mind is insomnia. Have you used Safr’Inside for insomnia at all, and…?

Benoit: No. No. No, no. No, no, no…we didn’t do that. It’s probably interesting. But if you look at the mechanisms, serotonin, so, it’s a precursor of melatonin.

Andrew: Yeah.

Benoit: Melatonin is helping you to start to sleep.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah.

Benoit: If you wake up in the middle of the night, and you start not to…it’s not the same mechanisms. Honestly, I don’t know which one. I’m not a medical doctor. But we never try. We never try. And second problem, if you want to prove that, imagine how it will be difficult to make the clinical study, in a scientific condition.

Andrew: Mm-hmm.

Benoit: So, but… No, we didn’t try that. I think one of the secrets to develop is to use maybe the Safr’Inside, because you will have an anti-stress effect that will always help to sleep better, but you have to make formulation with other ingredients.

Andrew: Yeah, with other…

Benoit: And that’s the thing we love to explain with our laboratories, with our customer, that want to make the job. The second job is to use Safr’Inside in a very adapted formulation. We cannot prove everything. You know, a clinical study today, a good one is $300,000. So… And it’s no problem, but you cannot have 10, for 10 different application.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah.

Benoit: And that’s… Yeah, sorry.

Andrew: Can I ask, then, going the other way, we’ve spoken about acute anxiety.

Benoit: Yeah.

Andrew: Again, chronic…

Benoit: Yes.

Andrew: The chronic, for instance, depression, where saffron really shines, in liquid extracts and things like that, have you any experience, and would you recommend Safr’Inside for long-term depression? And can I do a second part to this question? These people are very often, in fact, almost always, on medications, often SSRIs, SNRIs. Some people are still on the old MAOIs.

Benoit: Yeah.

Andrew: How does Safr’Inside work in combination?

Benoit: Yeah. First of all, there is absolutely no side effect there. It’s a spice. And we do what we call, technically speaking, a five-to-one extract. It means we use five kilos of raw material to have one kilo of extract. And the daily dosage for stress is 30 milligrams a day. So it means the equivalent of 150 milligrams of the pure spice. But for the reason, so you can do that yourself in your kitchen. It’s not a lot. And Iranian people, or the Indian people, they are eating much more every day, because it’s a part of the many, many different recipes, so, even in Iran, they put the saffron in the bread. So, there is absolutely no risk on that. The problem is that you don’t know exactly the molecules you are giving. That’s the reason to make a standardized extract. So, I will say, for the safety reason, there is absolutely no risk to take the saffron for a long term. But when you have whatever is the problem, I always recommend to make some period of treatment, and to stop, because your body start to take the habit of that. So it’s better to…and that, you, something you need to do with your doctors, with your naturopath, with whatever, nutritionist maybe, just to adapt to yourself. And that’s very, very important with the natural product. So, that’s a part of the answer. The second is more important, is, if you have a treatment, yes, you can use the saffron, but you will have the same effect. So, you have to be careful not to add two different, or, sorry, two same effect to the same target. Then, in France, for example, the doctors, they love to decrease slowly the drugs, and to replace slowly, in order, by the Safr’Inside, in order to have, finally, the same action, but you start to go more and more on the natural product. And they do that many times, because the drugs are giving some side effect, especially on the sleep disorders. And I think Australia is the same as in Europe. We don’t want to use drugs every day. We want to use drugs when we have a specific problem, but when it start to be something you need to take every day, except for the disease, of course, but if you can have a natural solution, well, I think it’s better, no? So… Yeah.

Andrew: I think last six years has shown us the, where drugs shine, and certainly where they’re lacking.

Benoit: Yeah. So, again, it’s a question of equilibrium. So, if you have a treatment, only the doctor can tell you if it’s good or not, because he knows you, he knows the drugs, I don’t know the drugs. And, then, after, it’s a question of equilibrium, and to go slowly. To go slowly.

Andrew: Yep.

Benoit: Don’t stop something and start another thing. That’s, for me, the worst things to do. If you have symptoms of depression or anxiety and some…don’t do that. Take with your naturopath, your doctors, whatever, but don’t shift from one to another one. That’s the worst.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Ben, I know you’ve got another meeting. You have to have a hard stop in 10 minutes, so I’m gonna respect that, even though I wish we could talk for another hour or two. But can I ask you a last question?

Benoit: Yep.

Andrew: And it’s just, where do you see Safr’Active… Sorry, Safr’Inside…

Benoit: Safr’Inside.

Andrew: Safr’Inside. Where do you see Safr’Inside fitting most powerfully in clinical practice nowadays? Is it this acute anxiety, or is it a blend of acute and chronic?

Benoit: Good question. I think the saffron extract is good for prevention. Whatever is the quality of the extract, it will work because the main compounds is crocin, and you have crocin in every extract of saffron on the market. But the difference of Safr’Inside is, again, the safranal contains by HPLC. And this is the only one you can have a direct action on the serotonin. And serotonin is a key mechanism in many different things, including acute problems. And I don’t know any other problem that can be fixed so quickly by a botanical extract, whatever it is. You feel something directly after 30 minutes. And we have some American customers, maybe it’s a good concept for Australia, they are doing oral steep, that you have a sublingual absorption, and then it’s not even 30 minutes, it’s much more.

Andrew: Wow.

Benoit: [crosstalk 00:39:12]

Andrew: Okay.

Benoit: It will be, like, maybe 15 minutes, 10 minutes, because you don’t need to make the digestion process.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah.

Benoit: So, just because safranal is going directly through the mouth, directly in your plasma, and then going in the brain. So, we don’t need to have all the digestion process, which is going fast with the safranal, again, because it’s a volatile compound, but still, 30 minutes. So, yes, to come back to your question, I will definitively recommend Safr’Inside if you have acute problems, and you want to see something. It’s also good for the formulators. We was working with probiotic companies, because they have wonderful studies on distress by the probiotics. But, it takes more than one month before you feel something. That’s normal. You are working on bacteria. You cannot change in 30 minutes. So, the concept, which is very smart, coming from them, is they, we want to use Safr’Inside with the probiotics. Like this, the people will feel something, and they will give time to the probiotics, to act in a second step. And then you have a very large formulation, whatever the people have, acute or chronic, and you are working on the probiotic as well. So, because Safr’Inside is encapsulated, you can still use a live probiotics. There is no interaction, like you can have with the other botanical extract.

Andrew: Ah, right. Yeah, cool.

Benoit: So, yes, yes. I think the chronic is important, in terms of prevention, but when you have a problem…

Andrew: Right now.

Benoit: …and you don’t want to use a drug, you need to feel something quickly.

Andrew: Yeah. Ben, this is fantastic news. Like, seriously, you’ve done such great work.

Benoit: Thank you.

Andrew: And I love it that you’ve…well, I love it that you’ve actually asked the right questions, and gone and then said, “well, what if we do this, but we need to do that to make sure that we get the right answers?” So, as you said to me, I think it was off camera before, you know, you get the answers to the questions that you ask. If you ask the wrong question, you’re gonna get the wrong answer. So, I’m very pleased that you’re asking the right questions, that are going to help clinicians in their practice. That’s fantastic. And I just, I’m so excited about this product. It’s fantastic news.

Benoit: Thank you, Andrew.

Andrew: Well done to you.

Benoit: Thank you, thank you. I really appreciate what you say, because Australia is quite new for us. And we really want to give a new generation of extract, that we are… We are just focusing on two raw material at Activ’Inside. We are not a global extractor. That’s not us. What we do is saffron and grape extract.

Andrew: Right.

Benoit: And specific grape. So, we know very well the two raw material. We know the mechanisms. And based on that, you can make multiple different formulations, adaptive. And you prove by clinical study. But we are always focusing on two raw material. And so, I hope, I really hope that the Australian consumers, they will, because we are, all of them, we have stress, correct? We have sleep problem. That’s number one. And natural solution works, but you need to know how, and how fast it’s working.

Andrew: Yeah.

Benoit: Then after, it’s your decision.

Andrew: Ben, thank you so much for taking us through this today.

Benoit: Thank you, Andrew.

Andrew: I so much appreciate it. And thank you, everyone, for joining us today. Remember, you can catch up on all the other podcasts, and today’s podcast, on the Designs for Health website. We’ll be putting up so much information. I think this is gonna be really useful for you. But thank you so much for joining us today. This is “Wellness by Designs.” I’m Andrew Whitfield-Cook.