Amie: Yes, me too. Well, look. Tell me, it’s gonna be hard to keep this brief, because I know just how much you’ve done over the course of your career, just how varied everything is, all the way from natural health to IT. But if you could, summarize as best you can, like, what your journey has been like getting into natural medicine, and Chinese medicine in particular, and where you took that. Because I know that wasn’t where you wanted to start, was it?

Eli: Definitely not. I remember in school, and year 12 came around, and, you know, you’re thinking, “What are you gonna do for the rest of your life?” And back then, it was, like, coming up to the year 2000, that showing my age, and it’s like, “Oh, there’s so many jobs that’s gonna be around the millennium in IT.” And you know what? IT was actually my worst subject in school, and I hated being in front of the computer. I’m like, I’m such a people person, and so, you know, I was making money. I had friends, or older, you know, sort of people I knew that were doing it, and they were earning so much money straight out of school. So I’m like, “Look. That’s gonna be a set future.” So I got into IT, did a four years of bachelor in computer science. And when I worked, for the first two years, I hated every minute of it. Like, and I remember dad saying, you know, “You should study Chinese medicine,” because he’s a Chinese medicine practitioner. You know, we were taking herbs when we were, like, two years old. You know, as young as I can remember, we were getting acupuncture as a child. We probably didn’t like it, but there was no choice. It’s like, nope, you’re gonna take natural medicine. There was nothing sort of pharmaceutical in our place. So, mom was a great cook as well, so it was always herbal soups and that. And I remember when he was saying that, just seeing him grow up in his clinic, and coming in on weekends, maybe, you know, just, you know, getting dropped off to their work, and just seeing him treat all the sick people, that’s what I thought, you know, sort of medicine was. Like, you know, you think of GPs and doctors, and it’s like, every time I saw someone there, they had a cold or flu. I’m like, “No. I don’t wanna follow his footsteps. I’m just gonna do, you know, IT, because I’m gonna have money. I don’t wanna be stuck to his business.”

So, I did that, and I hated every minute of waking up each morning and just sitting in front of the computer all day. Like, I was like, “Oh, my gosh. No, this is not me.” So I tried different things. I tried real estate. I dabbled into other things, retail, and then I sort of took a gap year, and dad’s like, “Look, just try Chinese medicine.” Like, “You don’t understand until you’re there, in China.” So that’s when I actually took three months off, and went to China, after I had done four years as a bachelor of IT, I’d worked for two years in IT, then I’m like, “What am I gonna do?” You know, I’m in my sort of mid-twenties, I’m lost, and so I thought, “Look, what, I’ll have a holiday out of it.” Dad’s like, “I’m gonna pay.” So I’m like, “Sure.” So, I went for three months, and just being in China, going to the hospital, you know, seeing hundreds of clients, because their hospitals are very different to the ones here. They really incorporate Chinese medicine. So, I always remember I was in, like, a…it was [inaudible 00:05:02] a stroke hospital, a lot of stroke, Bell’s Palsy, like, the whole, you know, nervous system. And, you know, there’s not much that Western medicine can do for stroke and rehabilitation, but in this hospital, because we were there every day, we were seeing hundreds of clients, they were getting so much better, quickly, within couple of weeks.

So, it might have been the city we’re in, Beijing, but there was a lot of wind, and they get a lot of Bell’s palsy and stroke. And so, in Chinese medicine diagnosis, we say it’s a wind condition. So, being in Beijing, extremely windy, especially in springtime. And I just saw them, like, coming in without walking, to, like, you know, a couple of weeks later, I mean, they were coming in daily, and they just got better. And I was like, wow. It’s so amazing. And then to see it, and to really experience it in its full glory, and really what Chinese medicine’s all about, it’s sort of like, oh, it’s more than just treating sick people, you know? And at the time, I was studying beauty therapy as well. I’m like, well, I wanna really incorporate this, and so, beauty therapy was only at the start, like, facial, cosmetic, acupuncture, using sort of acupuncture instead of Botox, and that was where I thought if I’m gonna do Chinese medicine, I’m gonna go down that route.

So, really, that was, like, after I graduated from Chinese medicine. So, after three months of being in China, I came back and enrolled in a bachelor of traditional Chinese medicine at UTS, so that was a four-year course. And after that, I said, I’m just gonna go in and do all the beauty therapies, so I’m gonna treat skin, and I’m gonna do facials and acupuncture. So, that’s where I was for the first couple of years, until I realized everything’s interlinked. You know, hormones, women’s health, they were coming in, they were getting acne, because I love treating skin, like eczema, acne, but it’s really all to do with the hormones. So then I sort of pivoted, and for the last 10 years, that’s basically been my focus with Chinese medicine, is more the whole hormonal aspect. Because acne, we know, is a sort of side effect of the deeper sort of hormonal imbalance, is at the root cause of the body. So, yeah, that’s kind of a bit of my journey, where it all led to where I am today, and then just, I guess, incorporating all the other modalities, because no medicine is perfect, so I’m like, as I was learning, I’m like, what else can I do to help these clients get better, especially with having a baby? It’s such an emotional thing. It’s like, what else can I keep adding? And so, yeah, just one thing after another, and just added more tools and modalities to my tool belt, really.

Amie: That is so incredible, and I really love how you just kept following what felt good, and the things you had the passion for, and recognizing that you just didn’t want a conveyor belt of sick people, but ended up finding the way to use those skills that were basically in your DNA, thanks to dad.

Eli: Yeah. So, yeah, dad’s been a practitioner for 50 years about, and so I’ve been a practitioner for over 15, so, combined 65 years is quite a lot. So, he’s definitely helped me along the way. You know, if I have a client that’s, you know, it’s a bit challenging, we can always, like, sort of have a little discussion about, you know, what to do, so it’s great having that sort of mentor, for sure, the early days.

Amie: Yes. Yes. What a really special relationship, and what a lovely thing to share as father and daughter. And tell me, obviously, you trained in the beauty therapy area, and moved into that cosmetic area. And I know, from personal experience, your professional experience, it’s a very rewarding area because shifting how someone looks really shifts how they feel about themselves. It’s very…

Eli: Yeah.

Amie: …different to dealing with perhaps hidden conditions, or less visible conditions. But how did you then step into the fertility space? Was that just because you were already dealing with hormones, or was there anything else going on for you there?

Eli: Yeah. So, I think the main thing was, you know, at the beginning, I wasn’t always, again, I saw dad when I was just in my early days, and I was doing beauty therapy. Just facials. And dad was sort of treating the body with the hormones. And I’m like, look, just treating the face and putting topical things is really not changing the underlying condition. It really had to be two things together. And I remember this case really clearly. There was a woman who came in, and she was gonna get married in three months, and she had really bad cystic acne. It was, like, literally stage 4 acne. And within three months, her skin completely cleared up for her, for her wedding. So, I was doing the facials, the external peels, and the treatments, and dad was really working really holistically with her, obviously, changing diet, and, you know, giving her herbs, and supporting her that way. And so I was like, wow. This is, it’s not just one thing, right? You can do the topical treatments, but if you’re not really getting down to fixing what’s at the cause, then it’s just gonna continue.

So, obviously, acne is a sign of different hormonal imbalances, you know, irregular periods, PCOS, all of that. So that really sort of led to, okay, let’s understand why that’s happening. And so, then, as we uncover it, then people have got irregular periods, painful periods. It’s like, that’s not normal, because people think that their symptoms are normal because that’s all they know. They’ve had it all their lives. But when you explain, no, there’s actually deeper underlying conditions that we need to address. That’s why I sort of went into women’s health. And I guess, as they sort of moved on, they’re like, “I wanna have a baby,” and then everything’s linked, so… Yeah, I think that’s definitely more rewarding, because sort of, the skin is great. You can see the before and after, but just really helping them with their hormones, and having that beautiful baby when they’ve been really struggling, is just so profound. And so that’s why I think it’s so rewarding when we can help them along that, but also having a baby that is healthy, at the end of the day, is really my passion. It’s not just being able to, you know, as practitioners, we know that it’s not just about getting pregnant, but it’s that whole journey. So, everything is interconnected, right down to really the beginning of let’s address the hormones, let’s address what’s happening at the root cause. And we’re looking at it from different lenses, I guess, with all my experience. TCM is one lens, but we’re looking at their diet, their lifestyle, their mental/emotional, you know, their mental/emotional health is really important, because even if they’re doing things like eating the right things with diet and lifestyle, they still haven’t addressed the mental/emotional aspect. So that’s where my coaching and my NLP came in. I was like, well, we need to address everything, physical, mental, emotional, spiritual. Yeah.

Amie: But sounds like the beauty therapy, or the skin elements, really was that turning point, where you were like, okay, I’m gonna be, I’m marrying now what I’m seeing on the outside with what I know to be true, you know, on the inside as well. And certainly, as part of Chinese medicine, facial diagnosis is a big part. It’s very much a barometer of what’s going on internally. And so, shifting gears to think about fertility, and addressing not only root causes that might be impacting fertility, you know, someone’s ability to conceive or to hold a pregnancy, but also going beyond that, to optimizing the health of their pregnancy, you know, postpartum period, and also the health of the baby. I’d love to hear from you, like, how you assess someone, how you uncover hidden or overlooked imbalances that could be impacting them, both through a TCM lens and nutritional approaches, especially TCM, actually, because I think, you know, there’s not so many TCM practitioners around and looking at, you know, the Chinese pulse diagnosis, and tongue and facial assessment. I’d love to hear what it is, big red flags that you might see, that are a problem, or patterns you look for, or things you commonly find.

Eli: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, it’s really, like I said, it’s a holistic thing, but I guess it starts off with, they come in, we do a really comprehensive intake form. Like, my intake form is super comprehensive. And, you know, these GPs they go to, they go and they meet, they go, I’ve been trying for two years, haven’t fallen pregnant. Even six months. People are so impatient these days with having a baby. It doesn’t matter what age. They could be, like, you know, 25, 26. I’ve spoken to, you know, sort of late 20-year-olds, and they’re trying for six months. It’s not happening. They go to a GP, they’re like, “IVF,” right? But when you really look at a really comprehensive case study, so, for me, it’s [inaudible 00:13:24] that’s the first step is, like, let’s look at really comprehensive, like, where is your digestion? Like, really getting nitty gritty. What does your poop look like, you know? Even to things like that. You know, they go, “Oh, I’m sleeping six hours.” Yeah, but how much of that is deep sleep? You know, I get them to track their sleep. I’m like, you say you’re sleeping seven hours, but, you know, you could be sleeping seven hours, but really only getting half an hour of deep sleep, or you’re getting two hours. So, you know, with watches and technology, it’s combining a lot of that as well, I’ve seen. I’m adding more and more things like that.

So, digestion, sleep, where is their emotional stress? Like, you know, stress we know is the cause of so much. It’s like, have you got stress in your life? Where is it coming from? And then I guess if they’re not sure, we could do cortisol testing, you know, and see are they following the normal cortisol patterns? You know, past traumas, like, really digging in. What was their inner, what was their childhood like growing up? What was their birth like? Like, did their mom have them early? Like, I’m, like, gestational period is a big thing. Were they C-section, were they natural birth? You know, where they sick a lot as a child? Like, really getting really nitty gritty, and really spending that time to really understand them, you know, where they were from literally the beginning of gestation, all the way to where they are now. You know, what has caused problems? Where major illnesses were, the family dynamics. Have their family broken up? Did they go through a lot of teenage stress which caused them not to eat properly? Like, there’s all those things, and that alone can take hours, right? Really digging in. It can take a couple of sessions with some [inaudible 00:14:53] because they might not open up immediately. You know, they may have trauma you don’t realize till, okay, they’re starting to open up maybe once they trust you after one or two sessions.

So, that’s the first thing, is really getting comprehensive, like, picture from a physical, mental, emotional perspective, like, as much detail as you can get, and understanding that what they’re saying is not necessarily, like, normally go, “I’m sleeping seven hours,” but they’re still waking up tired. Well, then maybe it’s not really good quality sleep. So, from a TCM perspective, after that, we may look at their tongue. Well, we always look at their tongue. And then from that, we can really see, okay, is their body cold or hot? Is their tongue sort of white or red? So, from that, that’s another indication of is their body running really stressed, really hot, or are they really, really cold, like, they’ve got poor circulation, and being able to conceive or not conceive. There’s a diagnosis in Chinese medicine. We call it, like, a cold uterus. That means, like, it’s not really conducive environment to actually have the baby. They’ve got really cold hands and feet, so I have to put, give them herbs to really warm that up. And, you know, they could be drinking really cold, icy drinks. You know, traditional Chinese medicine, we want the body to be warm, so that you’re able to sort of carry that baby, and not miscarry a lot. So, that could be, like, a cold symptom.

So, that could be, like, the tongue, just sort of looking at basic things. Like, what does the tongue look like? Does it have a lot of teeth marks? When it has a lot of teeth marks, it’s indicating digestive issues. Does it have a thick coat? You know, some people brush their tongues every day, and it’s like, I don’t want you to brush your tongue, because if they say, “Oh, I’m waking up with furry tongue,” that means there’s a lot of damp. So, there’s a lot of, we call, I guess it’s inflammation, and they’re eating a lot of dairy and inflammatory foods that are causing that inflammation. So, that’s, like, a tongue picture. So we go, okay. It’s matching that they’ve got poor digestion. They’ve got a little weight gain. Their tongue’s showing, it’s cold, and it’s very thick, yellowy, white, so there’s a lot of inflammation there. And then we can also check it with the pulse. So, I usually looking with pulse, is it, like, sort of superficial? Is it really weak? Is it rapid? Is it slow? So, all of these things are just little pictures to, like, this puzzle. You know, I find that I’m like a detective when it comes to fertility, because they don’t know why they can’t fall pregnant. GPs don’t really care. They just want them, usually, they’re not spending time [inaudible 00:17:05] look, let’s go to IVF. That’s not fixing what’s at the root cause, so, when you combine a really comprehensive workup of their history, you really look at the tongue, the pulse.

And the next step is obviously, as a practitioner, we’re looking at meridians, so I could have them on the bed once they’re there, really feel all the organs. And, you know, we have a stomach, you know, we have different, I guess, indications of what’s really at imbalances. So, we can really use a whole stomach, and can tell us all the organs that are out of balance. So, I have them lying down and go, okay, is the kidney out of balance? Is the liver? Is the spleen? Is the heart? So, we’re really looking at all the major organs and energy channels, to see what is happening. And really, from that, it’s then assessing, once all of that, you understand it from a TCM perspective, because I combine a lot of the functional medicine, I’ll be like, okay, is there further testing we need? Do we need to test, you know, your folate, your B12, you know? Is there foods that you’re eating that is contributing to that inflammation? Maybe we need to do a food intolerance test, DUTCH test. So, there’s many things. So that’s why I find the combination of things comes in really beautifully, because, you know, no medicine is perfect, so when we can have many tools and combinations, I’m like, yep, Chinese medicine’s great for diagnosing this aspect of a person, but let’s look at, now, science and, you know, really the technology that’s come really far in the last sort of 20 years, and how can we get an even better picture, so… Yeah.

Amie: I think it’s great that you’re able to combine Eastern and Western medicine under the same umbrella so beautifully, because you’re looking at, with TCM, a dynasty of, you know, 5,000 years-plus of expert observation and application that predates, you know, any technology whatsoever to see what’s going on under the skin, so to speak. And yet, now that we live in a day and age of exponential growth in terms of information and access to diagnostics and assessments, we can also actually refine details in a way that we couldn’t before, which, you know, does add another layer of sophistication, in order to address someone’s issues. Now, I have a few other questions for you, but I wanna pause for a moment and talk about IVF. And this is something that I know you and I are both very passionate about.

Eli: Yeah.

Amie: And it’s not just about getting pregnant, having a baby, but knowing that if someone’s having trouble falling pregnant, normally, if we can use air quotes, “normally,” the standard old-fashioned way, that this is a barometer that there’s an issue with cellular health, on some level, possibly with the partner also, or instead of. And that really, that IVF, whilst it can, like, leapfrog ahead to providing a pregnancy, I don’t think people understand how few of those actually go to full-term babies. And the consequences on the child’s health going forward, because the underlying health issues that were in the way of conception and retention of pregnancy weren’t addressed. So, could you speak to a little bit about that? Because, in my opinion, you know, as someone who does work in the fertility space and supports IVF patients, doing that groundwork can make such a difference in the outcomes, but also reducing some of the risks that comes with engaging with IVF, and the medications as well.

Eli: Yeah, definitely. So, I think a good three to six months, you know, depending on where they’re coming. And the big thing is, most times when you go to IVF, the men aren’t really looked at, you know? They go, “Well, they’re not important.” And most people that go to IVF, 80% that go to IVF, the statistics is that they don’t actually need IVF. Because a lot of it is male-factored infertility. And that’s actually fairly, you know, much more easier to address, if it’s purely male-factored infertility than, you know, if it’s a very complex, you know, sort of woman’s condition, and that we don’t know what’s happening. So, I think it’s really important. That’s why now, when a client comes in, I’m like, I need to see the most recent sperm analysis, and done from a proper lab. We need to include DNA fragmentation. So, then, you know, then we can really address the men, because most of the time, they’re not being addressed. They’re, a lot of them are on poor diet and lifestyle. They’re not looking after themselves well. They think, “oh, the woman…” even these days, you’d think they’d be more, you know, open, but some of them are still very close-minded, I find. And the wife is really struggling. She’s crying a lot. She’s like, “You know, my husband, he’s very stubborn. He won’t change.” Most of them are smoking, vaping. I’ve found a lot of men are vaping. And we know that that’s causing a lot of problems with infertility, because I just look at the results. You know, a lot of the men have 1% or 2% morphology, you know, whereas optimum should be around 15%. And I said, “That’s not gonna help you get pregnant. And if you do, very high chances of miscarriage.” And if that doesn’t happen, what’s the health of that child gonna be like?

So, people don’t realize that what you’re doing in preconception for, they’ve said up to two years prior to conception, is gonna actually indicate the next two to three, maybe even four generations. So, I think as parents, we’ve gotta be really looking out for the health of our child, not just going, okay, I’m just gonna jump straight into IVF, with no preparation. Most people that go to IVF, they’ve gone to the GP. They haven’t changed anything whatsoever. They’ve just told the GP they’ve taken this long to conceive, supposedly trying to conceive. Most of them aren’t even in the proper windows or their periods are irregular. And then before they know it, they’ve been through multiple rounds of IVF, with no results. And so, I think that’s really important to make sure that those clients, I tell them, forget having a baby right now. Just put it out of your mind for the next three months. Let’s just get you healthy. You know? And if you fall pregnant naturally in the next three to six months, amazing, you know? I mean, that’s what our body should be able to do. But if there’s deeper underlying issues, like, I’ve read that with men, if they’ve got poor sperm parameters, it’s actually taking 10 to 15 years off their mortality. And it’s like, why isn’t that a reason for you to really fix that, and address, you know, your underlying issues of why the sperm is so bad?

And also, for the women too, just, a lot of their hormonal issues, if they’ve got endo or PCOS, and they’ve had multiple endosurgeries, why does it keep coming back? What toxins are you ingesting? What can you really do to keep the toxins at bay, and all of the things that they can have more control over? So, I guess with the testing, you know, with the men, they go, okay. I want the men tested because if they can see, right in front of them, and understand the repercussions, and truly understand what they can do to get healthy, then it’s a benefit for them, so, like I said, IVF is only a tool to help them get pregnant, but it’s nothing to do with helping them stay pregnant, or there’s no heartbeat. What’s devastating is when they’re pregnant, and then, you know, eight weeks, there’s no heartbeat. And these IVF clinics are making them go back again the next month or the month after. But it’s like, if you can’t fall pregnant naturally, you’ve failed at many cycles of IVF, what is…when are they gonna take a break and go, “Let’s look at what really is happening?”

Amie: Quite frankly, I find it criminal that women are subjected to the rigmarole of IVF drugs, without any intentionality to improve their health or address male factors. And because ultimately, it’s a business, and their business is combining the sperm and the egg and transferring the embryo, and that’s really the beginning and the end of what they offer. And unfortunately, people go into this system expecting so much more, or not understanding that there’s a much wider scope around fertility, fertility being a reflection of health. And just, side note, I actually think, as part of health in the future, semen analysis is going to be a way to address and assess male wellness. It’s such an easy and accessible thing. Unfortunately, looking at egg health is so much more tricky and difficult to access for women. But certainly, for men, I think, when we’re seeing those issues, it is a really big opportunity to change things.

And I think there’s so many reasons for this, but there is an inherently patriarchal, misogynistic approach, across the board, with medicine. And I use that term loosely, whereby women are internalizing the responsibility for, you know, conceiving and carrying the baby, and quite frankly, some partners are just not fit to be dads, in terms of taking ownership of their health and the impact on the child, because we know with even just minor nutritional tweaks, the impact that that has on the IQ of the child, the hand and eye coordination of the child, their risk of autoimmune disease, you know, their immune system for life, their longevity, their health span, and I think the greatest gift you can give your child is to really deal them the best hand that you possibly can. And certainly, with your approach with an East-meets-West approach, plus all of the energetics around it, it really, I mean, I just can’t believe how comprehensive your approach is. I know, for many women, they’ll have a team of people. You know, they might have mental health support. They might see a Reiki master. They might be doing energetic, EFT, NLP work, and then they’ll see an acupuncturist, then they’ll see a nutritionist. Whereas this is something you actually have on offer all under the one roof.

So, will you walk me through perhaps your, I guess, classic approach? You know, someone’s walked through the door, and you are running assessments, and you mentioned timeline obviously is a bit of a fluid thing, and meeting the clients where they’re at, based on their goals, can be part of the challenge also, because we do live in a day and age where people want results yesterday, and not realizing that, you know, 4 months to 24 months is really, you know, that window. But where do you start? What is the roadmap or journey you take patients on when you’re addressing these things? And what would you say to someone if you could just say, “In an ideal world, this is what we would do?”

Eli: Yeah. So, for me, I have my 90-day sort of signature program, and so I think it’s a combination of all that, so I’ve sort of brought this program together. It really gives them the foundations of basically, you know, what they need to do, starting physically. You know, know, that’s the easy stuff that we can start addressing, is diet and lifestyle. Right? And I remember a man that just came up, a couple that just saw me last week. And, you know, he, like I said, his morphology was 2%. The wife has had multiple miscarriages, and he’s got very poor diet, and he’s smoking, vaping, and he’s been doing it since he was 14. He’s 32 now, 34, I think. And then, basically, I said, you know, we need to look at addressing your diet. We need to change some of, you know, get you off soft drinks, and not drinking cold water. And obviously, think about vaping. From the day you stop vaping, it’s gonna take three months, really, for detoxing and getting your sperm healthy, because the life cycle of sperm is 72 days, approximately, so we need to clear out all the old crappy sperm, and bring in some nice, healthy, fresh sperm. “I can’t. I can’t, I can’t.” Like, you know, that’s their language. Everything is “can’t.”

And so it’s really hard, because we know having a baby, it’s hard enough for one person to really address all of those things, let alone when the baby is also, you know, the result of your husband or your partner being on board as well. And so, when they’re not playing their part, it’s extremely difficult. So, for me, bringing on clients who are going to have success, and those that do, and I see them have success within three to six months, is really, both couples doing everything that they can. I’ve had many couples that follow everything I say to a T. They’re doing all the homework. They’re getting all the tests that they need to get done done. They’re taking the supplements, the herbs, all the things, and they have amazing results. And healthy babies. Healthy babies is what we want. We don’t just want a baby. We want a healthy baby at the end of the day, because we know when you bring in a baby that’s constantly sick or has issues, like, I’ve had friends or clients whose babies have had holes in their heart, they’re needing surgery as a newborn. That’s not what we want, right? Or a child that’s got ADHD, all of that. So, we can do what we can in that preconception.

So, for me, it’s a combination of things. It’s really understanding, looking at things that they can really address on a dietary perspective. But through my program, it’s helping them understand, okay, where are their thoughts? Where are their mental, where’s their mental/emotional health right now? Are they constantly… So, using NLP, are they constantly speaking negative terms? Like, I have to pull clients up. They’re like, “I hate my body. It’s failing me.” You know, “I feel like a barren woman.” Like, I’ve heard all these, anything and everything from women, and the way they talk about their bodies, you know, whether they’ve had endo or a lot of failed miscarriages, or they’ve been, you know, trying to conceive for two years. Nothing’s happening. You know? “I hate [inaudible 00:30:36]” there’s just so much negative self-talk, and that is so important, that we need to flip that around. So, within the 12 months, 12 weeks, I’m really getting them to address, listen to what you’re saying to yourself. You know? Your body is really in tuned, and what you’re saying, what you’re thinking will drive all the hormones and the stress that’s happening. So, if people are hating on their bodies, their body is not gonna respond and be, you know, helping them to have a baby, right? They really need to start addressing loving their bodies, really taking care of things from that perspective. So, talking nicely, loving it, you know, get into a lot of gratitude work, a lot of journaling. And then, again, just, if they’ve gone through a lot of emotional stress, really clearing a lot of that negative emotions with them.

And then doing it not just for the woman, but for the men. So, I take both partners, because men have their traumas too. They could have been growing up in a very difficult, you know, environment. Growing up, they’ve had all their traumas just as much as women have, like, both. It’s all people. We’ve all gone through a lot. So, once I get them basically giving that foundation… The three months is foundations. They know what to do physically, mentally, emotionally, right? And then spiritually. That’s when I sort of address a lot of the Reiki, energetic work, sort of high spiritual manifestation visualization. So, if we can draw that energy to us, if we can be positive, really call upon that beautiful spirit baby. You know, I get the couples to hold hands, to visualize, to call that beautiful angel into them, whether they want a boy or girl, to hold hands and visualize. So, I do a lot of that sort of manifesting. So, I really believe, once both couples are in that alignment from a physical, mental, emotional, spiritual perspective, do they then sort of have that beautiful baby. So I sort of call it, you know, sort of reset, rebalance, realign, and then rebirth. So, that’s my program, is really getting them to that stage, because it’s not gonna happen till all the ducks are sort of aligned up.

So, yeah, then they have all those tools and go, then they can continue with that work, or I can help them with longer. Some of them may have even more trauma that they then need more one-on-one work with. But, yeah, it’s a combination of all of those things. And I think different tools, like testing and all of that, but deep down, they have to be willing to do the work, you know, in both people. The husband has to be just as cooperative and as willing, because it’s half his child too. I say, “What you’re doing is gonna impact the DNA when there’s DNA testing we can do,” right? So, your child’s got, you know, certain things that’s come from one of the parents, right? So, what we can do to give them that great head start, so they can have, you know, beautiful, healthy bodies, and then they can also conceive and go down the chain. You know, I’ve read that with women who go through IVF, now it’s showing that if they have a female offspring, if they have a daughter, they’re most likely needing to go through IVF now as well, because, I guess, you know, that’s just the energy. You’re growing this baby in a test tube, then you’re reimplanting it, that yeah, that it’s been shown that now their daughters are needing IVF as well. So, if we can really get back to the root cause, and really look at just spending three months of really addressing all those things deep down, getting as healthy as we can on all of those levels, on both male and female side, the results most likely will come.

Amie: Yes. Absolutely. It really does involve…it’s like almost a process of elimination, isn’t it? And…

Eli: Yeah.

Amie: …touching on every one of those variables that make us who we are, that contribute to our health, not just on a physical level, but mental, emotional, and spiritual, and really fully preparing for parenthood. It’s actually the first step in parenting, you know, motherhood and fatherhood, and it’s, I think, one of the greatest investments someone could possibly make. But thinking now, you know, with that zoomed-out view, there’s lots of different variables that you take into consideration and address, and help people heal and nurture their way through. If we were to zoom in now, and look more specifically at the reproductive system and its relationship with nutrition, I’d love to hear about, you know, what your favorite tools are to reduce inflammation, you know, increase egg quality, support implantation, you know, pregnancy retention. Do you have any favorites you’d like to share with us?

Eli: Yeah, I think it’s just looking at, first of all, where are they now? Like, what have they been doing and for how long? A lot of the women, the internet is a vast array of knowledge, and they get bombarded. They don’t even know where to start. They’re like, “I’ve read this on TikTok. You need to take this, and you need to take that.” And so they’ve come in… Some of them just overdo it. Some of them don’t, haven’t even taken a single thing, you know? They’ve come in. I go, “What do you want?” They go, “Nothing.” I said, “Nothing? You’ve been trying for two years, and you’re on zero, nothing?” You know? And they go, “Yeah, I haven’t taken anything.” Maybe the doctor suggested, you know, like, a prenatal or something, but that’s all. Whereas others have come in, and they’re on, like, 50 things. And so it’s really, like, you know, not all supplements are created equal. We know that. So, what are you taking? How much are you taking? And is it necessary? So, there’s lots of different testing we can do to see, okay, where are their bloods? What are the functional testing? And then really taking core things that are gonna help them with their nutrition. So, if they’ve got inflammation, if they’ve got, you know, PCOS, then that needs to be addressed. It’s all individualized. But some of my favorite nutritionals, I guess, you know, it’s a prenatal, that’s super important, because most people aren’t getting enough nutrition that they need. So, prenatal and essentially, I said, “Look, you need to be on supplements for three to six months, right? You need that, sort of, to really, you know, work your body to absorb it.” And if they’ve got inflammation, well, what food? So, do they need to fix the foods first, and their gut health?

So, we can do gut microbiome testing, right? Because if they’re taking all these nutritionals, but their body’s not absorbing anything, right, or they’re taking the wrong magnesium or, you know, a different form… And they don’t know. So, consumers, they haven’t gone to a lot of the naturopaths, and they’re all, you know, sort of, specific health practitioners. They’re like, “Oh, no. Magnesium’s good,” so they’ll just pick one off, you know, sort of the shelf or Woolworths, or they’ll pick some sort of crappy fish oil. And I said, it’s all about quality, but it’s also about dosing and therapeutic dose. I explained to them, it’s the quality, but it’s also therapeutic dose. Are you on, like, an optimal dose? Are you on just a maintenance dose, or it’s not even making a dent. So, I sort of love, like, prenatals. I love sort of omega 3s for egg quality and sperm quality. We know that most of the egg, and the sperm, is essential fatty acids. I think these days, we live in such a toxic environment, so one of my favorite things is, like, NAC at the moment. Even from before COVID, I think we’re in such a, and we wanna stay healthy, and it’s such a great sort of antioxidant, good for liver detoxing. A lot of the endo clients and hormonal issues are great with NAC. It’s another one of my favorites. Like, tocotrienols are really good as well. So, they’re kind of like the basic ubiquinol. You know, they’re really common in sort of, you know, as a good place to start, maybe a good probiotic.

And then, really, for the men, it’s the same. I think it’s important for them to be addressing all their health as well. So, men may not wanna take so much to begin with, but maybe just starting with good sperm health, you know, omega 3, some zinc, some vitamin C, some NAC as well, so… And then I might add in some Chinese herbal formulas for them. So, I think understanding where their individual profile, and then just starting with some core basics, and then maybe adding things on as I see fit. So, they’re kind of the things I love.

Amie: Yeah. Beautiful. Well, I’m sure, at this point, you have supported couples, hundreds, probably thousands of babies to be born at the moment, and I’m sure it’s probably hard to pick your favorites, but are there any, is there a case that you would like to share with us that, you know, really touches your heart or stuck with you? I’m sure they all have, but…

Eli: Yes.

Amie: …I’d love to hear.

Eli: Yes. I have a beautiful case, and they’re the most loving couple. So, they were trying for almost five years when they saw me, four and a half, five years, and they went through a really difficult period. Like, the father passed away from cancer a couple years ago. The husband went into depression during COVID, and they’re not old. I think they’re 36, 37 when they saw me, so, this was about a year ago. And we said, look, let’s get a sperm analysis done first. Like, is [inaudible 00:39:04] and his sperm results came back really, really poor. They were, you know, really low morphology count, motility, like, on the low end of everything. And I said, look, we need six months minimum. You need to give me six months. And so, they didn’t wanna go down IVF. They said, “I don’t wanna go down IVF. We’re willing,” and they were both so involved. Beautiful Asian couple. They said, “I’m willing to do whatever you tell us to do.” They came in every week for Chinese medicine. They went through my full coaching three months program, as well as the individual couples coaching as well. They took everything I told them to take. They took the testing that I told them to do, and they were just so on board. Yeah. They just listened, and they knew they were gonna get there. We had to work a lot on the mental/emotional aspect. And every time her periods came, of course, it’s, like, another month, you know? For women, when their periods come, it’s like this hit in the gut, and I’m like, “Let’s stay positive,” you know? The sperm takes time.

And in the meantime, we were doing any sort of investigative work with her, but she seemed to look all clear, so it’s like, what is the underlying, like, the five years? Like, how come it wasn’t there? But they had so much trauma. She felt like, you know, it really took her out when her dad passed away. She was very close to him, so it’s like they weren’t trying, not really in the mood, and so, the husband having depression obviously impacts testosterone, and that’s why his sperm analysis was so bad. But, yeah, after eight months I remember, after eight months, we’re like, “Hey, we’ve checked the sperm. Now, it’s sort of been about six months. Let’s get retested.” And they came back, I remember, perfect. Like, everything was, like, in optimal, not just, like, within range. It was, like, on the high end of everything. I’m like, it’s great. You can definitely try it. Everything’s gonna, you know, you’ve done all the work. I think you’ve been taking the supplements, everything, for, like, six, nine months. Literally, in the next month, they fell pregnant, and I remember she messaged me before she even told her husband. She’s like, “Check your phone. Check your phone.” So, she said… And then she sent a strip of, like, this pregnancy test that was positive, and they’d never had a positive in five years. And it was just the most beautiful thing. And I said, “How are you gonna break the news to your husband?” And I said…I gave her some ideas, and I think she put it under a cloche or something, for, like, lunch. She was cooking him lunch, and then he opened the cloche, and then he saw this little, you know, positive pregnancy test. But, and they’ve just given birth about two months ago, so I think the baby’s around about sort of, eight weeks, a little girl.

And, you know, when they just go through so much, they didn’t get any answers, so they just kept, doctors just kept telling them, “You need IVF, you need IVF.” And they’re just like, “I don’t want IVF. I’m sure it can happen naturally.” You know, they were willing to… They’d seen other practitioners. They’d saw a few other acupuncturists, but they just really resonated with sort of my expectations. I sort of laid it at the beginning, and I think that’s what we have to do as practitioners. It’s like, looking at the results of them right in front of you now, be realistic with them, and help them to understand it’s not gonna happen overnight. I’ve had clients who, I had another client recently. She was trying to get pregnant for three and a half, four years, and then just after a month, got pregnant. And so there are gonna be people that are gonna get pregnant sooner, but there are some that it takes time, you know, and the body, it takes time. So, however long it takes, is what I say. And then even if they do need IVF, we’ve realized with some that they’ve needed to go to IVF, then they’re actually well-prepared. So, I really think that if they can work on all of the aspects, on both the men and the woman, if they’re just as invested, most of the time, all the couples that I’ve seen who are both heavily invested to get the results and are willing to do what it takes, yeah, it’s just beautiful that they could have that beautiful, natural pregnancy, and then, I mean, without needing IVF, is just profound, so…

Amie: Mm. Gosh. That’s such a beautiful case, and such a lovely example of, I mean, they sound like they’re just the best parents in the world.

Eli: Best parents now. They’re sending me updates, like, every week. They’re “look at her grow,” and, you know, you become part of the family. And they brought me flowers, and they were so appreciative, because, you know, when you can help them on that journey to give them, you know, a baby after five years, it’s just amazing, so…

Amie: What an extraordinary story, and I think anyone listening to this, whether they’re a practitioner or not, I think the main takeaway is, you know, our bodies are designed to heal. We are designed to be fertile. Yes, there might be structural abnormalities or injuries, which is, you know, the purpose of IVF was to overcome structural issues, but the fundamental physiological requirements must still be addressed, regardless whether you opt for IVF out of necessity, or desire, for whatever other reason, and just knowing that if you’re willing to just take a breath and invest in that time and energy, and really preparing, it’s gonna set you up for the most incredible experience, not just pregnancy and postpartum, but I think, you know, the healthier and more balanced a child is, and the more they thrive in their life, the more enjoyable parenthood is going to be also.

Eli: Yeah, definitely. If they have beautiful, healthy children, I mean, yeah, definitely takes the stress off. It’s hard enough with a newborn, let alone a newborn that’s constantly sick, and…

Amie: Yes.

Eli: Yeah. Definitely.

Amie: Yes, yes. We’ve all seen that. Wow, Eli. Look, I could probably talk to you for another few hours about [crosstalk 00:44:18]

Eli: Yeah, I know [crosstalk 00:44:18]

Amie: I know we just skimmed on the surface, I know. Look, I’m sure we’ll get you back, because you’re just such a wealth of knowledge and expertise, and this is an area that I think has become increasingly required, because we live in a society and a culture and, you know, on an Earth that is being more and more poisoned, becoming more and more toxic in many different ways. And, you know, the antidote to that is true cellular healing, on physical, mental, emotional level. And where people, I think, are being forced to do the work is when they’re confronted with, you know, challenges in actually having a child, and perhaps, you know, that’s the way forward for us all.

But certainly, if people are looking for you on the internet, you are everywhere. We will put all of Eli’s links in the show notes of this episode. She actually has her own podcast, “The Holistic Health and Hormones Podcast,” if you’d like to tune in and learn more there, but we’ll also connect you with her on other platforms. So, Eli, thanks again for taking us through your approach to fertility and the health of the baby, through both an Eastern and Western lens, and from a truly holistic and energetic lens. It was so insightful. And for our listeners, thank you, everyone, for joining us today. Remember, you can find all of the show notes and other podcasts and resources we’ve referenced on the Australian Designs for Health website. And I’m Amie Skilton, and this is “Wellness by Designs.”