Filipa: Yeah. So, sometimes it often starts off subtle. So, subtle signs would be, yeah, energy not as good as what it used to be. Maybe waking up feeling exhausted, crashing in the afternoon. Mental clarity not doing so well. But then, when the person isn’t listening to those subtle signs, often it turns into more bigger symptoms. So, chronic fatigue, anxiety, depression. Complex PTSD is really common with burnout as well. And because the body can only stay in a fight-flight response for so long, at some point, it will start affecting other body systems as well, so that’s where we’ll start seeing autoimmune conditions, gut issues, detox issues, skin issues. So, it sort of it actually impacts the whole body when the body has been in a fight-flight, chronic stress situation for a long time.

Andrew: All right. And where along this spectrum…? I get this is a piece-of-string answer sort of question, but where along the spectrum of those symptoms do you tend to see people? Towards the beginning, or towards the end?

Filipa: Generally more towards the end. I mean, occasionally, we’ll have a small percentage of people who They’re like, “Yeah, I’m not feeling 100%. Can I get on top of this, prevent it from getting worse?” which is great, because that’s essentially why functional medicine was created in the first place. But a lot of people reach out when they are in the hole, when they’re really not functioning well, both physically, but now it’s affecting their life, and their relationships, and even their work and finances.

Andrew: And do they tend to come to you when other models haven’t worked for them, or do they tend to seek you?

Filipa: No. Yeah, we’re generally later down the list. So, most clients will go to the GP first. And sometimes that is really helpful, and it’s great to get a workup with a GP, because we wanna make sure there isn’t something sinister, like cancer or something going. But in a lot of the times, those results on GP blood tests come back as fine, yet they’re like, “I don’t feel fine.” That was my story. I remember my GP, lovely lady. But she’s like, “Yeah, I think this is just part of being a mum who’s working and building a business. You’ll be right.” But I’m like, when I stuck in bed, with chronic pain in my body, and I can’t even lift up my child, and I’m exhausted, that’s not fine. Like, human beings, that is not normal. And so, we also get quite a lot of people and clients who have maybe seen a naturopath, nutritionist, kind of just doing sort of standard dietary supplement-type stuff. Maybe they’ve seen a psychologist. But the thing there is it’s still a bit of a reductionist model, in a way. Now, not that any of these modalities or therapies are wrong or bad as a standalone product. We work in a community. But sometimes it doesn’t quite get to the root of what’s going on if you’re just focusing on nutrition, or if you’re just focusing on reframing your thoughts, or whatever it is. It often takes a holistic approach, which is what we’re very big on, and working on both the physical and what we call the metaphysical bodies.

Andrew: But it speaks volumes of, you know, just how important interdisciplinary care is. I was just gonna backtrack a bit there, and so, you’ve gotta give sort of kudos to doctors, if you like, or frontline therapists, if you like. Because they have to tease out these really ambiguous symptoms, like fatigue. “I’m tired. I’m tired all the time.” What’s tired all the time for me is different for tired all the time for you. I mean, we all know the male/female joke. But yeah, and women are just soldiers. Women care for the family, and the husband, when they come home, and make the home, and da da da, you know. So, you’ve gotta take your hat off to these first-line therapists, because they start off with ambiguous symptoms. Having said that, when it comes to the, like the situation that you described, what’s happening there, when there’s this… Is it a disconnect? Is it a non-realization of the severity? What is happening there? You know, when your doctor, who was lovely, didn’t realize just how severe your plight was?

Filipa: I feel like, for me, personally, and this is what I, the narrative from clients as well, is that the space isn’t there to have the conversation. So, they’re quick consults, you know, that that’s just what the medical system has created. A lot of the times, it’s, like, 10 minutes, you have enough time to share your symptoms, but not really the back story. And not really how it’s affecting you. I felt like, too, so, this is going back 10 years, but I had all the symptoms: anxiety, depression, gut issues, exhaustion, low immunity. And I think, too, I didn’t understand how bad it actually was. And maybe there was a bit of shame and guilt in me actually being able to share that with my GP. So, I guess it was kind of like, “Yeah, I’m not feeling great,” but I didn’t have the words to really explain how that actually looked, if that makes sense. And unless someone’s sitting there, like a practitioner or a doctor, really asking those really nuanced questions, sometimes people are disconnected with their own story. They’re in the pain, but they can’t articulate it in a way that someone can actually connect all the dots, and identify where the issues are coming from.

Andrew: Yeah. I totally understand you. Like, I rely on my wife to tell me how bad I am. She’s way more attuned than I am. But Filipa, you mentioned something about your story before, about, you know, that there was multiple body systems being affected, so let’s dive into that, for others. What body systems do you see? Is there a cascade, you know, from, say, energy first, to thinking second, to immunity last, if you like, autoimmunity? Can you take us through how this presents in a temporal style?

Filipa: So, if we’re talking about, I guess the subset of clients that we work with, so, they’re busy, they’re burnt out, they’re often running perfectionism patterns, people-pleasing patterns, overdoing. And so, generally, that starts… Okay, I’m gonna go back even before body systems. Generally, it starts at a belief level. Like, even as a little kid, at some point, they choose to believe that there was some sort of defect about them, which then created these thought patterns and behavioral patterns that they needed to do more, to be more, and to get validation, and love, and acceptance from others. And so, that’s… So, we talk about that. That’s, like, the internal tiger that is chasing you, 24/7, and it can go on for decades. And so, that’s kind of like where we often see the fight-flight response take place, that you develop these unconscious core beliefs about yourself. If they’re loving and kind, then people are healthy and well. But if they’re unkind, if there’s any kind of dysfunction showing up in the body, or in life, then there must be a dysfunctional belief underneath that. And the unconscious state is controlling everything, including every chemical reaction in our body.

So, it’s really hard to be well, and to even heal, if there’s a deeper, unconscious core belief that you’re not good enough, you’re unworthy, you’re undeserving, you’re broken, you can’t heal, you’re incapable. And so, from there, so, then, that’s gonna develop these patterns in the lifestyle, where it’s like, “I’m burning the candle at both ends, because I’m trying to prove my worth to myself and to the world. Yet it’s unsafe to stop and relax, because if I do, everyone’s going to be, is finally gonna see how bad I am, or how defective I am.” And so, then that, over time, is going to affect the adrenal glands. So, if we think about the body systems now, massive strain on the adrenals. So, your body’s producing all this cortisol, the stress hormone. And also the brain. So, neurotransmitters, like adrenaline, are getting fired because that’s stressful to live in a body like that, in a system like that. And so, it is, like, a person in this situation, it’s not safe to be in the body, and it’s not safe to be in the world. And then, over time, you get stuck in the sympathetic nervous system, you can’t rest and digest, so sleep goes out the window, gut isn’t functioning anymore. And then, over time, you can’t detox properly, and that causes more issues, because that’s gonna break down neurotransmitters, put more stress on the adrenals, gallbladder’s not working, more gut issues.

Andrew: Yeah. And so on. And so we go. Can I ask, Filipa, you mentioned about, you know, shame and guilt. And I’ve gotta say, I cannot remember the name of this book, but it’s actually written about, it’s written by a gay man, for gay men, but it covers that very, what’s the word, common, topic, and that is shame. That so many people experience, we all have, you know, we carry a little basket that we won’t let out. But there’s this internal tiger, as you talk about. With regards to the creation of, sorry, of what it creates, though, have you seen people who are the go-getters, the dynamics, the I’m-on-top-of-the-world, I’m-good-within-myself, I’m confident, blah, blah, blah, turn into that sort of, and I don’t mean to be derogatory, but that victim mentality? Have you seen people slide into that different way of thinking about themselves?

Filipa: Yeah, yes. Yes. And here’s the thing. If we go back to the unconscious core beliefs, which often produce guilt and shame, is that you can actually thrash your body for a while without getting symptoms. And so, there can be… This was actually my story. When I started digging into deeper unconscious core beliefs, and like, “Oh my gosh. This is why my body isn’t healing,” I had no conscious awareness that I was weak and incapable. I actually thought I was pretty darn good. “I did a PhD, and I used to get straight As at school, and, look, I’ve built a business,” and da de da de da. All these things that I did. But it was coming from a place of fear. Like, it was, and fear and also… Fear was there, so it was also very stressful. So, there can be these people who might look like they have it all together. They’re the go-getters. They’re doing all the things. They think they’re pretty awesome. It’s like, “Look at the all the great things that is happening.” Now, if they maintain and sustain that, and they don’t get sick, then it’s actually probably coming from a place of love, and passion and purpose. But if at some point it’s like, eww, the bell curve is coming down, and all of a sudden, they’re, like, exhausted, and they need to, they’re like, “Oh, maybe that wasn’t good enough. I thought that what I achieved actually was great, but I need to do it again, otherwise I might lose it.” That’s where that victim mentality starts coming in. And then that’s where it’s like, that was actually driven from fear of self, rather than love of self.

Andrew: So, that’s actually, I’m gonna give you kudos here, Filipa. Because that’s actually extremely brave to confront that tiger, if you like. You know, that takes… And forgive the colloquialism. That takes courage, to really delve in and be honest with oneself. So, kudos to you, young lady, I’ve gotta say.

Filipa: Thank you.

Andrew: Rather than, though, delving on a lot of the psychology, because, seriously, this is a big psychological podcast, we need to give practitioners some tools. So if we can move on about what is it in…? Do you say some? Do you say many people? What is it that blocks recovery?

Filipa: Same thing.

Andrew: Same.

Filipa: So… Say, okay. So, if I use myself So I had three body burnout experiences. The first time, first and second time was after my first and second baby. First time, I healed using nutrition, which is great, and amazing. Like, I’m like, “Let’s just stop eating crappy food, and let’s ferment food, and soak and sprout foods.” And it was really important for where I was at in my journey, because it’s foundation for healing. We need to eat well, because we are what we eat, and we are what we assimilate. Then all my symptoms came back after my second baby. First baby was really traumatic, so it kind of made sense that it was the last straw on the camel’s back for me. Second baby was really lovely, and peaceful, and a lovely birth, and she slept a lot, yet my body still erupted with symptoms, because I started doing perfectionism patterns again. I’m like, “I feel really good. So, two weeks after birth, let’s get back into life.”

And my body was like, “No. We are not gonna let you continue these patterns.” And that’s where I realized, okay, food is great, but it’s got me so far. So, then I found functional medicine, and started actually looking into the body systems. Because sometimes, in talking to practitioners, too, if you’re practicing nutrition, or using nutraceutical supplements or whatever that is, and you’re like, the protocols are sound, and it works for some people but not others, then that’s where it would be worth looking into body systems. So, actually doing some lab testing, to see, are we fighting against some pathogens here? Are there parasites, H. pylori, Candida. I had all of those. Adrenal fatigue, detox issues. And that’s where you can actually start getting really…like, you can create more personalized protocols for your clients, or patients, so that if that’s part of the block as to why they’re not healing, then that’s kind of the next level of inquiry.

And when I did that for myself, again, great healing. Amazing. Felt really good, for maybe, like, three or four years, then COVID, 2020 hit, and all my symptoms came back. And this time, insomnia, and a pretty mad histamine intolerance, that I just, I couldn’t get to the bottom of, only using physical therapies. And that’s where I started the journey into what’s happening at an unconscious level, and what’s happening with deeper beliefs and trauma patterns. And so, I found, for me, that that was a bit of a block, in terms of me being able to go to the next step of healing. And it’s often the block for people.

So, there’s usually two types of clients. There’s the type of client that would take a treatment plan, and they really struggle to implement it. It’s like, “You’ve got the golden egg. Just do it.” Yet, why does someone find it hard to implement, like, good nutrition, and sleep, and lifestyle. And even taking supplements, some people find really hard. And that’s usually because there’s some sort of unconscious resistance that, again, they’re not deserving of being well.

Andrew: Sorry for interjecting. So, that’s what most people would put down to a “compliance issue,” right?

Filipa: Yes. And then there’s those other group of clients, who, bless their hearts, they take the treatment plan. They do it perfectly. They’re, like, 100% compliant with their dietary requirements, going to sleep, getting rid of toxins, taking all the supplements, and nothing changes. And that’s really frustrating, for both the patient, and also the practitioner, when you’re like, “But this works for some people, why not this person?” And that’s also why we started digging into what’s going on here, like, at a deeper, unconscious level. Because, now clients, we get, actually, a lot of clients who seem to be treatment-resistant, and when we actually start clearing trauma from the system, regulating the nervous system, and helping them to deeply reprogram identity-based beliefs about themselves, so that they can heal, then, oh, my gosh. Like, sometimes it’s within weeks they are better.

Andrew: But so, that would obviously take a brave patient to go, “Okay, I need to do a deep dive here.” And, I mean, that’s like deep diving into mud. That is a lot of thrashing around, and uncovering uncomfortable past memories, possibly repressed. So, a lot of your work is psychology.

Filipa: It is. It really is. And I find, too, with those clients, they’re usually, again, perfectionist people-pleasers. So, they’re like, “I do it perfectly,” but they’re doing it, again, from a state of fear. So, they’re trying to heal themselves using fear and force, rather than courage, love, judgement-free, and just trusting the process, and learning to trust their body. That’s the big thing. When there’s lack of trust for their body, and that their body can be well, then it’s really hard to heal.

Andrew: Right. Okay. So, you mentioned those interventions previously. Let’s go through them. Can we go through, like, a stratified introduction, if you like, to therapy? Is there a place that you always start, or do you take each patient as they come, and say, “Oh, no, you’re two steps ahead, we’ll go there.” Or, “You’re way worse. We’ll start there.”

Filipa: No. We have a really clear process. So, the first process always is, let’s connect the dots. Let’s look at… And we’re not disregarding the physical, because, again, if someone has a really bad case of SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, it’s really hard to heal the gut just using, kind of, like, mindset psychological measures. So, I’ll meet with all our clients, and I’m looking at both, everything that they’ve done from a physical point of view, psychological point of view, when it all started, patterns that they’re playing out. And then, we’ll always start with lab testing. So, it just fast-paces, rather than trying to guess what might be going on from a physical point of view, let’s run some labs. Let’s look at the neuroendocrine, gastrointestinal, and detoxification system, because then we can start supporting and nourishing the body. And especially if there’s things like adrenal fatigue, dopamine depletion, a lot of inflammation in the body, sometimes it can be really hard for people to do the deeper root cause work, when the capacity just isn’t there. So, we kind of, like, start sparking the body first. And then…

Andrew: So…

Filipa: Yeah?

Andrew: No, no. You keep going. You keep going, please.

Filipa: Okay. And then, although this is kind of like, “it’s not this, then that.” It’s kind of like, often, doing things at similar times. So, while we’re waiting for lab tests, then we’ll start working on, well, where are you now, from a metaphysical point of view. And this is where it’s just, like, with no judgment, because the moment that we start with, the moment that the patient client starts looking at all their dysfunctional things that are happening in their body and their life, with shame or guilt or frustration or anger or embarrassment, the little door between the conscious and unconscious mind will close. And so, we, like, our first step when we get into that is we’re just looking at it like clinicians. We’ve got our little white lab coats on. We’re looking at all the weird patterns that you’re playing out. And so, when I have coaching sessions, we do both group and one-on-one, but sometimes a client will say, “I didn’t do that thing again,” or, “I drank the alcohol again.” And rather than, like, “Oh, yeah. That sucks. Oops.” It’s kind of like, I just say, “That’s just a dot. Let’s just add that to the list.” And it’s like, cool. Just like when we looked at the lab test and you saw leaky gut, there wasn’t any shame or guilt around that. There was kind of excitement. So, when we start digging into the deeper programming, patterning stuff in the unconscious, we’re just doing it in the same way that we’re looking at, like, blood tests, with excitement and curiosity, and then we can do something about it.

Andrew: So, that’s an interesting way that you approach it, that it’s a, and I’m really impressed by practitioners who do this. Is it an innate positivity? I don’t know. is a classic one, how she says, “If somebody’s scared of dying, isn’t that because you love life so much?” So, there’s this flip, into the positive. So, you have changed that, “Oh, I’m bad. I never did this.” No, no, no. It’s excitement, because we’re now uncovering stuff, is, you know, along our journey. Isn’t this great?

Filipa: Yes.

Andrew: So, is that a personality trait, or is that a skill that you can teach?

Filipa: Oh, you can absolutely learn that. Absolutely learn that. It’s hard, because you break, you’re bunching, you’re backing up against neural pathways and different ways of thinking, that this person has been running a strategy for a really long time, that, “When I do something wrong, or bad, or something that exposes me that I’m not good enough, ugh, that doesn’t feel good.” And so, the human nature is that we judge that, because if we judge ourselves first, it doesn’t hurt so much when someone else judges us.

Andrew: Ooh.

Filipa: And so, but you can… I know. Yeah. You can totally relearn that, and reprogram that. And it’s so freeing. So, if someone is running this pattern, the moment that that little switch switches over to, “Oh, this is just a strategy I’m playing,” because, anything dysfunctional, whether it’s a physical symptom in the body, or a behavioral pattern that is causing body burnout, or preventing you from healing, it comes from the best part of you, just showing up unresourcefully at the moment. It’s always about love and protection. And when you start seeing it like that, it’s like, “Oh. So, me staying up late watching Netflix at night, that’s not actually bad. It’s actually trying to protect me in some way.”

Andrew: That’s cool.

Filipa: It’s cool. It’s cool. I do love a bit of “The Good Doctor.”

Andrew: I was just gonna say that positivity, I was summarily taught, and it was a really good lesson, one which I will never forget, I will always remember. And that is from Petrea King. I said, at this oncology summit that I was doing, and I said the word “PTSD,” post-traumatic stress disorder. And Petrea went, “Up. Can we just swap that? Post-traumatic stress injury, because you can recover from an injury.” [vocalization 00:25:07] Mind blown.

Filipa: Yes.

Andrew: Real interesting change in just that vernacular takes away the judgment for the patient. Interesting,

Filipa: Mm. Yeah, I love that. I’m gonna borrow that one.

Andrew: Thanks, Petrea. Filipa, can we move on to interventions, because we have to look at how we can help patients. Like, you know, you’ve said diet. So, when we talk about diet, these people are worn out. Do you tend to sort of go to the more, you know, soups and easily digestible diet to start off with? And then we look at behaviors, like chewing, and perhaps digestive enzymes, and then do you move through, let’s say, adaptogenic formulas which help our energy? Or do you tend to say, “Okay, we need this for this, that for that, that for that, and let’s go?” How do you stratify? Yeah.

Filipa: Yeah. So, dietary is really personalized to the individual. So, again, if there’s… We get a lot of clients who have done a lot of things. So, if they’ve kind of done GAPS, and paleo, and keto, and vegan, and low-histamine, and all the things, and they’re kind of burnt out from dieting, then I gotta, again, just flip the script. Just, like, just eat anything. You can go eat Macca’s if you want, if that makes you happy, because currently, your fear around food is making things worse. Now, this person is very unlikely to go and eat Macca’s, but, you know, I throw that, I give permission to eat whatever.

If someone’s, like, super keen, they’re like, “No, no, no. I’m happy to change, modify my diet to help me to feel better,” then, generally, it’s just starting off with, let’s eat healthy whole foods. We don’t have to be overly restrictive around that. Let’s just take out some of the main inflammatory foods. So, processed foods, additives, preservatives, sugar, gluten, for some people. And I do find caffeine and alcohol, when someone’s in a state of body burnout, better to reduce or avoid while we’re trying to heal the body. And then, based on lab testing, so, that’s where we might use different types of healing diets. So, if someone has a really bad Candida overgrowth, well, when we get to that point in the treatment protocol to clear the Candida, or reduce it, then we’ll eat a very low-carb, higher-fat type way of eating, to help starve off the Candida. If someone’s showing histamine symptoms, then we do a low-histamine diet, one, as a test, to see, do you actually have a histamine intolerance? And if you do, then we can shift the way that your body is holding onto histamine, that bucketload of histamine, as we’re healing body systems, and calming your overall system so you can then eat the foods.

But my big philosophy with food is a healthy body should be able to eat all healthy foods, including tomatoes and legumes, and, you know, some healthy foods that a lot of people have issues with, so that the goal is to get to the point where we end up just eating lovely whole foods, with, and being really in tune with the body, so that that individual person knows what works for them at any given time.

Andrew: Yeah. What about things like collagen? Like, I find that it’s just so easy to include in a diet, because it’s so easy to take. It’s virtually tasteless. You can put it in coffee, you can put in soups, you can put it in a smoothie, if that’s your thing. You can put it in anything. I find it one, probably the most versatile supplement that’s going to give you bang for buck.

Filipa: Yeah. It is great. Yeah, because it’s tasteless. Like, sometimes I’ll throw in, “Let’s try some fermented foods now,” or bone broth. Some people love it. Other people are like, “Ooh, tastes disgusting.” Whereas collagen, tasteless. You can add it to anything.

Andrew: I know. I just, I’ve started to, not flip, but include it in treatment plans for far more than what I would originally think of. You know, it was, in the past, it was “Oh, it’s for joint.” Then it was connective tissue. Then it was actually doctor Frank Golik who taught me, many, many years ago. He was taking glucosamine. Forget…this is years before we had collagen. But Frank was taking glucosamine, not because of joint health. He was taking it for cardiovascular prevention, and that’s indeed what’s been shown by this incredible, I forgot the name of the trial now, but a retrospective trial in UK, where they looked at people taking glucosamine for joints had less CV events, cardiovascular events. I thought that was just so smart of Frank, many, many years, a decade, more, before that. His mind is brilliant. But that’s what I’ve started to do is to use collagen and for so many different things, not just what the packet says.

Filipa: Yes. Yes. And if you think about burnout, so, most clients are in adrenal fatigue, which is really catabolic. It’s a state of the body where you’re just chewing away at muscle tissue. And that can be from anywhere in the body. And so, something like collagen is gonna come and help replenish those parts of the body that are just getting burnt up.

Andrew: Yeah. So, things like adaptogens. You know, we speak often about these. When you’re talking about people whose mental capacity is eroded, you know, the hero one that we all knew about in college was Panax ginseng, Korean ginseng, Chinese ginseng, whatever. I am far more of a favor of American ginseng, though. It’s this, I don’t know. It’s more of a mind ginseng. I quite like it. But what’s your experience? What do you prefer? Or do you indeed use other adaptogens?

Filipa: Yeah. I like adaptogens. I mean, licorice root is great too. Again, if we talk about adrenal fatigue, it can help to increase cortisol. So, if someone’s in a really low, kind of, stage three, later stages of adrenal fatigue, can actually hold onto the half-life of cortisol, so over time, that rhythm can start increasing. Not that I would recommend licorice as a lolly, but there was a very interesting client, who, maybe it was his daughter. But anyway, his GP, this person could not produce cortisol. They had a genetic issue where they couldn’t produce it. So the GP actually said, “Just make sure you’re eating licorice throughout the day.” And that actually helped to increase the cortisol, which was kind of cool. But now we have better quality, in terms of a supplement, to be able to improve that.

Andrew: Yeah, so, hey. So, sorry. Licorice lolly?

Filipa: Yeah. Like, he, licorice lollies, like, the licorice sticks. Obviously, you know, that’s got sugar and wheat and other stuff in it, so, not the best form, but it was just very interesting that a GP, or a specialist, who was looking at working with this person with the inability to produce cortisol, that that was a therapeutic recommendation.

Andrew: So, this is very interesting to me, because, not too long ago, there was an American paper that came out, damning licorice, saying it’s upsetting testosterone levels and things like that. I looked at the licorice, because we sometimes eat licorice, as a lolly. And I looked at the back of that packet, and there is zero Glycyrrhiza glabra in that confection.

Filipa: Oh, wow. Very interesting.

Andrew: There is none. There is aniseed flavor, but everything else is wheat and sugar and maltodextrin, and blah, blah, blah. There is no licorice herb in that “licorice,” which really annoys me. But I think it’s really interesting how… I am gonna say medical here. There is a medical narrative that takes a label, because the label says licorice, and it says, “Therefore, there’s licorice in there because I know.” No, you don’t. You never looked at the ingredients on the back of the packet. Just, I’m just saying that because, time and time again, herbs are lambasted, unfairly, because of an ignorant narrative. And so, licorice is a good herb.

Filipa: Yeah.

Andrew: But licorice can adversely affect testosterone levels, if it contains licorice.

Filipa: Hmm. Yes. That was many years ago. I’d probably now ask more questions around that. It’s like, did it actually improve it, or were there other medications that you were taking?

Andrew: Well, no, it improves it. Like, you’d use it really well in things like polycystic ovarian syndrome.

Filipa: Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew: You know? Beautifully. You use it when there’s a lack of things, to increase the effect, if you like, of cortisol. Sure. But long-term, high-dose, you’ve gotta be aware of the effect of that, kind of like long-term, high-dose statins might have an effect on testosterone.

Filipa: Yeah.

Andrew: What about other herbs there? So, you know, Ashwaganda, Shatavari.

Filipa: Hmm. Withania.

Andrew: There’s so many beautifully… Withania, yeah. There’s so many beautiful, nourishing herbs out there. Do you prefer any ones that are…because of lack of side effects? Because, you know, a friend of mine calls Ashwagandha, she says it’s like a warm hug. But do you prefer any types when these people are low? Sometimes when they’re heightened? Do you choose them because of their presenting patient picture?

Filipa: Yeah. So, it’s usually a combination. Again, licorice would be, I would usually think about that as low. This isn’t a herb, but…

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Filipa: …is something that can be really good if someone’s in earlier stages of adrenal fatigue, so, where they’re producing way too much cortisol, and that can help to bring that down. But again, not long-term, because you don’t wanna bring the cortisol levels too low. But that’s a lovely one. And they’re kind of the ones that I would think about, depending on where cortisol levels, are at. And then, generally speaking, vitamin B complex, oh, my gosh, is amazing, for, like, so many body systems, not just adrenals, but the brain. Every cell in the body is made up of fats, proteins. Vitamin Bs bind so many things together. And when I’m running lab tests, I would say 9.5 out of 10 times, vitamin B levels are too low for people. And not that I have a favorite supplement. It’s kind of like asking what’s your favorite child, but B6 is quite magic for a lot of people. It’s amazing. Like, I’ve seen people where anxiety disappears, they’re now sleeping better, just because we’ve added in some B6 that they were really depleted in.

Andrew: Right. What level do you go up to in B6? The TGA’s really down on B6 at the moment. They’ve now instituted warnings at a lesser dose. I think it’s 20 milligrams. Previously, it was 50. I’m sorry. I’ve never, ever seen an issue of hyper B6. I’ve never seen an issue of pyridoxine toxicity. I’ve seen, certainly, issues of low B12, when they’re taking folate without B12. I’ve certainly seen that. But I’ve never seen this. Have you ever run into an issue of B6 toxicity? And what level do you go to with B6?

Filipa: No. No. So, usually, look, usually it’s 100 milligrams, I think, from a therapeutic dose. And that’s sort of a baseline. And this is, again, based on lab tests. So, I wouldn’t willy-nilly give someone a high therapeutic dose of a nutrient unless it’s actually, like, you know, “you do need this.” And then, sometimes, like, yeah, I have, for some clients, increase that more so, as a trial period, but only for a couple of weeks. So, you can kind of do that quite safely. It’s not long enough. It’s long enough to see if there’s gonna be additional improvement, but not long enough that someone’s going to get…it’s really hard to get toxicity with B6.

Andrew: Yeah. I’m sorry. I, just, I, look, I understand it must happen. I certainly have not seen it. I looked up the DAEN, the database of adverse event notification, and there certainly has been hundreds, over, you know, since 1971 to 2023. But I’ve certainly never seen it. It staggered me, actually. But what I think is interesting is, you said B complex, so you’d be using it, A, guided by labs, and B, in the context of having a complex around it, not as a single nutrient of B6 alone.

Filipa: Correct, yes. So, always a complex is kind of, like, the baseline. And then if we need to, want to, experiment with increasing, like, a single B, then that’s where you get a different, like, a single vitamin, and increase it.

Andrew: Yep. Yeah. What about, you know, these patients are burned out, so they’re experiencing frustration, guilt, possibly some anxiety, depression, in relation to their perfectionism, and maybe not being able to attain that perfectionism now, and blah, blah, blah. So, what about anti… I’m not a fan of these black-box labels that we put on herbs, but what about herbs that are suited, let’s say, to people suffering from depression and anxiety? The St. John’s warts, the kavas, the California poppies, passion flower, but so many beautiful nervines. Do you prefer any ones? Do you tend that some are better than others with what you deal with? What’s your experience?

Filipa: Yeah. There is a beautiful supplement, with magnesium, as well as lovely poppy seeds. Usually, like, with those calming herbs, I’ll use them in products that also have, like, magnesium, or sometimes the vitamin Bs, as well, in it. So, they’re using it in combination, and I find the calming ones, attached to a good amount of magnesium, is so lovely. So lovely. And sometimes, if we think about antidepressants as a pharmaceutical, sometimes people don’t respond to those, but they do to something natural, that… Like, what I love about herbs, and also nutrients, is that it’s more integrative in that it’s not just blocking or adding something into your system. It does so many other things in terms of supporting different types of body systems. And so, you know, there can be dramatic changes in so many different types of symptoms from one person to the other person, when they’re using these herbs and nutrients in combination with each other.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. Last one. I need to mention it, because it’s ubiquitously deficient in the Australian diet. Zinc.

Filipa: Yep.

Andrew: I mean, I was, just the other day, I was tracking somebody’s fingernails, looking for white spots, and tracking them. And it was interesting. They went, “Oh, my goodness,” and I said, “What happened about two and a half, three months ago?” and they looked at me like “How did you know?” And it was really interesting. So, this emotional trauma in somebody. And I went, “What happened?” And they just looked at me, and I went, “Your fingernails grow out. And so, any trauma that’s in the cuticle will grow out to the end of the tip of your fingernail, and eventually drop off. But you can learn to track that by yourself,” and they’re looking at me like I’m this weird soothsayer, sort of… I said, “No, no.”

Filipa: Palm reader.

Andrew: It’s like, it’s physiology. But I find that looking at the white spots, and if required, supplementing with zinc, and getting people to learn about zinc-containing foods, pepitas, and using those when they can and when they need to, maybe adding in a zinc supplement, I find that’s just one of these sweet things that people can learn so simply and safely, without being dependent on a supplement.

Filipa: Yes. Yes. I love that, too. Like, the body speaks to us, not just in terms of symptoms, but also, like, physically, on our body. And zinc is great. But yeah, when someone’s in that chronic burnout state, whether it’s trauma, chronic stress, so many minerals just get burnt up, including zinc. And zinc is so important, for so many things, and also really easy to replenish, even from a dietary point of view. Like, adding some seafood. Not a lot of people are eating seafood. Or if you’re plant based, seaweed is also a great form of that as well. Yeah. And so, it doesn’t have to be complex. It’s more just, like you said, you can learn by looking at your fingernails, understanding when there are periods of stress as well, so that you can actually prevent something from manifesting in a big way symptomatically, when you’re just aware of where you are in the present, and maybe even shortly after.

Andrew: So, that’s part of teaching patients about self-care, really, isn’t it? Like, if you can teach people to look at their fingernails, and say, “Okay, look for white spots if you’ve undergone a period of extensive stress,” you know, maybe the fraying of the cuticles, and you look at maybe B vitamins. People who get, you know, mouth ulcers, and they get the, you know, the stress-induced mouth ulcers, or the B vitamin-induced mouth ulcers, and getting them to know how to care for their body. I know this is off topic, but, you know, one of the simplest ones is people with cold sores, teaching them about lysine, and to avoid chocolate and nuts. Stress, good luck. But, you know, just those simple self-care things. So, is part of your training, if you like, part of your therapy for patients, to take them through how they can learn how to manage their symptoms on their own, by themselves, for the future?

Filipa: Yes. Yes. That is why, like, our signature program is called the “ending body burnout method.” Because we want clients to really…like, one, connect with themselves, at the deepest level, that they are wonderful and amazing. But also to read and understand the cues that their body is sending them. And so, that is a big part of what we do, so that when they finish our program… Because life will still happen. Stresses will still happen. There will be deaths. There will be, you know, maybe, like, relationship breakups, whatever it is. But understanding those earlier, more subtle signs, and then how to act upon those to help support the body during those times, will prevent them from ending up in body burnout again, and doing the same thing over and over. Yeah. And that’s really important, because then, they’re taking back their power, and becoming empowered, as opposed to just expecting someone to fix them or to rescue them.

Andrew: Yeah. Now, you’ve written a book on this topic. Obviously, it’ll include your journey, but you’re teaching others. Directed to patients or praccies?

Filipa: Yeah, it’s primarily directed to patients. But definitely, practitioners, I think, could learn a lot from it. So, it’s broken up into four parts. So, body systems, what to test for, and I list all the type of lab testing we do as well. Second part is heal their bodies. So, how can you eat, move, and sleep better? Heal thy mind. So, how can we do this deeper root, root cause work, so that the body can heal. And, heal thy environment. So, cleaning up stressors, inflammatories, toxins in the environment, and also… So, the book is specifically for busy women, who also have families, so, how can we create an environment with our family so we are the leader, and create change over time for the people that we love, without burning ourselves out.

Andrew: Yeah, which is a big one. Can you hold the book up for us again, please, Filipa?

Filipa: Yeah.

Andrew: So… A little bit… So, it’s called “Ending Body Burnout,” by Filipa Bellette. I urge everybody who is struggling, or who has patients who are struggling, there’s a great resource for everybody. Thank you, Filipa. Now, where can we learn more? Have you got any, like, seminal papers that you have learned from, or any authors that you learned, who mentored you?

Filipa: Mm. So, one of my main mentors for functional medicine was Doctor Daniel Kalish, who was, is awesome. So, he did do a paper on adrenal fatigue and H. pylori, which is kind of, like, around burnout. So, I can send you the link for that one. That’s a great, peer-reviewed research article. He’s written books as well. Gee, I love… There’s so many books. Are we talking about the physical stuff or the metaphysical?

Andrew: Or whatever. I don’t mind.

Filipa: I’ll just show you my bookshelf, Actually, one book that was the thing that led me in this direction of natural therapies, “Deep Nutrition.”

Andrew: “Deep Nutrition.” We’ll put the link up.

Filipa: Shanahan is her last name. It was her PhD, but that, it follows along the Weston A. Price ways of eating. But she also looked at dental structure as well, and how dental structure has changed in modern life. Beautiful book. That was, like, the book that changed my whole trajectory, to move into natural medicine.

Andrew: Wow. Okay. So, there’s two great references. We’ll definitely put them up in the show notes. And, just for everybody who’s listening in the podcast, and we were sort of showing the book, so, you can see the video version on YouTube. If you look up “Wellness by Designs practitioner,” might take a little finding, but you can find them on YouTube, and you can watch our interviews for free if you want.

Filipa, thank you so much for taking us through this. I mean, there’s obviously a personal journey, but you’re now helping others from that. I find this is interesting with many practitioners who learnt so much from their journey, and now they wanna give back to others. So, well-done for you, for caring for patients. So, because you have this knowledge, a real knowledge of, yeah, this is what that looks like. This is what burnout looks like. Thank you so much for helping to end body burnout.

Filipa: Thank you so much for having me.

Andrew: And thank you, everyone, for joining us. Remember, you can catch up on all the show notes and the other podcasts on your favorite podcast app, you’re listening to it, or the Designs for Health website, and also, as I said, the YouTube videos as well. I’m Andrew Whitfield-Cook. This is “Wellness by Designs.”